WAH with one foot out the door and one in.

[Zues126]

Here's what I want to convey - there is something not quite motivating enough about the message that women should "just do it" (tomorrow at lunch say). I just don't think it works that way. If it did, all I would be doing is letting you use my body. That doesn't make me feel so great. Would it make you feel great as the man knowing that was what I was doing? Or would you rather I actually be really into you when we ML? A lot of the sex books seem to push the "just do it" message. Like we should "just do it" and if we can't then there is something medically wrong with us. Well that idea doesn't make my juices flow either.

Zues - same for you. Check out Schnarch. Maybe there are other areas where you were the low-desire spouse and failed to move yourself forward in a way that made it easier for your wife to connect with you? Maybe that's why she couldn't have sex more frequently with you?

Thank you for the reply Gan. Let me first acknowledge that this is an extremely emotionally charged issue. This is an issue that played the primary role in the destruction of my family, perhaps yours, and certainly millions of other couples. Just reading your post evoked a strong reaction in me that compelled me to sit on it for a while, not because you were wrong, but because it flashed me back to how I felt during my M for years. Likewise, I recognize this may be a equally sensitive subject. I appreciate you replying and discussing this, but given how raw this is for me at least I'll try to step a little lightly.

I DO need to make a bigger point of understanding how the low desire spouse feels. I will admit that though I've thought about it, my feelings were so strong it was easy to just dismiss the outlook you described as "wrong" in the past because it was so awful to me. As a result, I failed to do my part to bridge the gap and see if there was a way through. As you mentioned, there are MANY things I could have done much better to get different results, and in no way am I pointing all the blame on my STBX, or on you in your R. I can't imagine how difficult it would be to be the low drive partner, to feel used, cheapened, disrespected, coerced, manipulated, abused, and even violated. No, I will admit. I didn't see past my own feelings in the R. They felt so powerful I just felt that my partner must be in the wrong.

I learned an interesting point of view about M...BOTH PARTNERS MUST MEET THE OTHER PERSON 100% OF THE WAY. The idea is that if both people want to meet 50% of the way there it will never work, because both people will view that 50% so differently and it won't be enough. Only when both give 100% can they actually bridge the gap.

Similarly, I feel that sex is a funny subject. It's not really a "Need" in the sense of food or water. But it's not really a "want" to the high desire spouse like a new car or a vacation to Hawaii.

For a high drive spouse to consider it a "need" is dangerous, as it can lead to entitlement, and all of the destructive behavior above, much of which I exhibited. Taken to the extreme, the idea that the low desire spouse should submit to the high desire spouse 100% of the time, any time he/she was turned on or horny...well, that wouldn't be possible, and the low desire spouse would quickly feel like a glorified blow up doll, emotionally trodden on, used, cheapened, and hurt beyond belief.

I also think that for a low desire spouse to NOT consider it a "need" is very dangerous as well. Just as I have admitted that I don't understand the other side of the coin, I feel that low desire spouses ******SEVERELY UNDERESTIMATE******* how much it IS a need to the high desire spouse. I would guess it's underestimated by a factor of 10. The LDS is not even in the right ballpark with the damage it causes.

So to me the question about "would you want sex if your partner felt you were simply letting me use their body" looks as alien as asking "would you want me to feed my hungry baby when I'm not in the mood and feel like I'm simply being a servant?"

The answer for me is "yes", because although I feel loved when my partner wants to meet my needs, I also feel loved when my partner CHOOSES to meet my needs even when they don't always feel like it. It says 'I love you' to put my needs in front of your mood. At least some of the time. It doesn't have to feel arousing or appealing, but it will keep the high desire spouse from feeling so awful they feel their only shot at happiness in life is to leave the M or seek fulfillment outside of it.

I'll back it off a bit and say again that the answer isn't that the LDS spouse becomes completely subservient, stuffs their own feelings perpetually, and becomes the one that feels traumatized all day. The point is that NEITHER spouse should feel that way, and both parties need to understand that no matter how strongly they feel their point of view on this issue is right, BOTH points of view are right, and somehow through love, communication, compromise, and both sacrificing more than they ever thought they could...maybe it's possible.

I don't have the answers. These are just my thoughts. I am sending you a big hug and sincerely thanking you for voicing your feelings respectfully. I feel there is a lot we could learn from each other and I am looking forward to becoming a better person from this discussion.

Vets, I'd love to hear from you. Particularly Starsky...I understand you've been through a love starved marriage. Could someone page Starsky?