Back again, advice needed..

[Tulo]

Oh, that's a good idea! I will try that..

You are so right, I need to think about why. He was the one asking me out over and over again and in the end I said yes, and liked him straight away. The feeling was mutual. So I think I need to keep silent and let him take the initiative.

Maybe he has given clues to why, and I just haven't been sensitive to pick up what so I will think about that a little..
I know that what we started to talk about, in a less than positive way a few weeks back, was an issue with his son. His ex was expecting a baby with her new man (that she cheated on him with) and his son was very worried with if he would be able to get a hold of him in case she went into labour. I realise now that it wasn't as big of an issue as he made it out to me when he told me, but I asked him several times if they have explained to the son (he is 9) that it takes hours to deliver a baby and that he needn't worry. He said that no, but obviously the boy knew, and I said how is he supposed to know? This behaviour that I felt was insensitive towards to boy, made me tell him that I thought it was wrong a few days later.

Think this was a trigger that brought it up now, but I really felt bad for the boy if he was upset all for nothing and no one tried to put him at ease.. Turns out he over played it when he told me, but how was I supposed to know?

Also I think that the fact that our living arrangements that makes him the one having to do most of the travelling to me, is something that has been troubling him, but since he hasn't told me I haven't really thought about it. I did tell him, that I totally understand this and that we have to make a change if we are to continue so that he doesn't have to do the lions share of the driving all the time. I'm more than willing to find solutions, just as long as we can figure this out together..

Just saw the interview with Bruce Jenner, on his gender change. And thought that he's been married for 23+ years to a woman fully aware of his issues, and they have worked on this together. That to me is love. You have problems, but you work to find ways to stay together. That is what I want. Remains to be seen if that's what I've got.

It's noon here now and I've decided to go to the cinema tonight, since he hasn't said anything about wanting to get together. It's a real heartbreaking movie and that is just what I need.

Hope you're sleeping tight now sweet red JellyB, on the other side of the world!
Big hug!

[Tulo]

Suddenly filled with anxiety and having a very hurting heart. Why? I listened to the radio, something that I love to do. I listened to a show called "serious discussions" where they talk about questions listeners send to the show. I wish I hadn't.

One woman had sent in a question about a man she had been on a date with, who had said that he wasn't interested and wished her good luck for the future. She wanted to see him again and asked what she could do to have a chance with him.

The host said that if a partner says they don't want to be with you, or say that they don't know if they want to be with you, it's more or less the same thing. Then it's not right and you should just be happy that the person has been straight with you and move on.

So now I suddenly get all these fears that me keeping away is gonna feel like heaven to him and only accomplishing that he misses me less.. Or something.. I'm not even sure what I'm feeling, I just no that I feel crap and instead of starting reaching out to him, I'm venting here.. Hope that is ok.

Just off to the movies, doing everything I can to keep busy, portraying that I have a happy life and hopefully he'll notice and reach out. Fingers crossed!!

BIG hugs to all of you out there going through this..

[Zues126]

Hey Tulo, just catching up on your sitch.

If you can please throw some info on your profile so we can get a sense of age, time together, status, etc.

OK, I have to ask a question. I promise I'm not judging. Just really curious. You said you tried DR in your first M, then bad things happened, and you finally had to leave because you didn't love him, and you couldn't respect a man that didn't act like a man.

Would you make the same decision again?

I have just always been curious about the way the feelings work here. I wouldn't have ever left my M no matter how difficult, so when I felt betrayed or abandoned it was because I thought we had a pact not to do that. I know your loss is every bit as real, I'm just curious if you feel the same sense of betrayal, or if you are ok with the idea of leaving a bad M but you're just devastated with the loss and wished you had a chance to make it right.

Tulo, this is a rather provocative post so please know that whatever differences we may have we are both human, both dealing with tremendous adversity, and I do offer my full support in every way I can. I am honestly trying to learn from different perspectives. As you can see from some of my other recent posts I'm not even saying I'm "right" to never walk from a M as I think that came from a place of desperation and neediness every bit as much as from values. So please don't let my post add an ounce to your pain. This is a place to open and share, this is just something I wanted to connect on.

As for advice, SLOW DOWN. It's like you were dropped into the middle of an ocean full of freezing water. You want out NOW, but there's no land for a long ways in any direction, so panicking and flailing around won't do you any good. Like it or not, you'll be cold and wet for a while. So acclimate to this, pick the direction the seagulls are flying, and start making steady progress. You will absolutely get there.

[Tulo]

So this all went to hell.. All good little things I thought we still had going for us over and done with. Talked to him earlier today. Yesterday he said over the phone that we should meet. We have a holiday coming up this weekend, and I said maybe we could go watch the big bonfire and so on.

Today he said that the reason he wanted us to get together to "talk". He said that he had hoped these few days that had gone with no contact would have showed him that he missed me, but unfortunately he found that he didn't. He says his feelings have changed and are more or less non existent now and he doesn't know why, but feelings change, don't they?

I didn't plead I didn't cry, I just said that I hear him and that I think it's a mistake but I have no interest to persuade him to be in a relationship with me. I said that I had hoped that we could have given it a chance, to see if we could find our way back, but again I can't make him do anything.

I just can't believe how quick this is. He says it's got nothing to do with OW and I do believe that, but his behaviour makes me think that I might be stupid to believe him because I can't see why he's in such a rush to call it quits otherwise.

So now he wants to get together the day after tomorrow to "talk". I'm scared to death, and don't know what to say to him. I can't very well decline meeting him, since we still haven't said "it's over".

I won't make a big scene or anything, but if ANYONE has any good advice on how to deal with this meeting I would be very happy for some input!

I know people have a story under their name, I will figure it out and write one but here goes the quick review.

//
Age: Me 44years Him 43 years
Together: Soon 2 years.
Kids: Me -Son 22 years. Him :Twin girls 16 son 9
Life: We don't live together yet, due to work. Live in neighbouring towns.
History: All been very good up until this winter/spring winter when he was overloaded with work and with his kids who's mum got a new baby with new man making him more needed by them.
His job took him overseas for extended period this spring. We have spent mostly time in front of tv, over dinner and in bed last 4-5 months.

4 weeks ago: He says next business I have to come or his not going.
3 weeks ago: Discussion about problem with his son.
2 1/2weeks ago: He says his feelings has changed. He doesn't feel as much for me, thinks travelling between us is hard and not as fun when not as invested. We talk and decide to give it a try to change the relationship back to a positive one.
10 days ago: Says feelings still the same. We fall out over the phone. Decide to have a few days to think.
4 days ago: Meet up for coffee. Lots of discussion. He's pretty firm on that his feelings have changed, but says he's in no hurry to figure this out.
3 days ago: Talk on the phone, ends with us talking about wanting to have sex, and getting pretty hot and steamy about it.
2 days ago: He calls. I end the call, being happy as a clam all through.
1 day ago: I call. He sounds happy. Says several nice things and wants to get together.
Today: He says he's got "no feelings" and that he doesn't know why or what to do about it. //

Anybody out there? Please, I'll take any comment what so ever.
Is there anyway for me to change this around? What to do if he says it's over? I can feel him slipping away and don't know what to do about it..

Hugs to h

[Tulo]

Hey Tulo, just catching up on your sitch.

If you can please throw some info on your profile so we can get a sense of age, time together, status, etc.

OK, I have to ask a question. I promise I'm not judging. Just really curious. You said you tried DR in your first M, then bad things happened, and you finally had to leave because you didn't love him, and you couldn't respect a man that didn't act like a man.

Would you make the same decision again?

Hey you!

1. I will try to get that profile thing going, haven't really gotten the hang of this forum yet.. I made a quick summary at the end of my last entry until I find what I need to do. Unfortunately a bit challenged when it comes to forums, but I'll figure it out.

2. Yes, I would make the same thing again when it comes to that situation. The DB worked, but when he came back after leaving me and hooking up with an ex for months, and I saw that he just thought it was ok with more of the same I couldn't do it. The problem was that he had 2 kids that he simply wouldn't step up for, not emotionally or financially, but just put all that on me and even stopped paying mortgage for our house. I payed for more or less all of our expenses, food, clothes, car, house and he just sat in his studio playing his guitar hoping to be a rock star. No, he didn't make it, if you wondered..

He put it all on my shoulders, and even though he came back and swore he loved me, I just felt that either he wanted to be a part of our family, both emotionally and financially or he didn't. When he refused to change and be a father to his kids and at least an equal provider for our family, I said goodbye. I felt I needn't pay for a man any more. I would never have left if I had thought that he could care for anyone but himself. In the end I understood that not me, not the kids, nothing was important to him, but HIM!

So now this time around, I had a man I thought was the real deal, that I could pamper with love, good food, fun times and great sex and hopefully get something lasting back. But l still somehow come up short. And I'm back to wanting to have a relationship that is true and long lasting.

Seems very tricky for me indeed..

Thanks for your reply, and I think your advice on taking it slow was very good. It just seems I've run out of time to do that.

[Zues126]

I'm sorry Tulo. We all know the feeling and it is about as low as it gets.

He is telling you your R is over. Yes, he's been conflicted. But he's trying to leave you. Seducing him, guilting him, etc, that might work for an hour in a moment of weakness, but you can't win him back that way.

Really there are many things you can't control here. All you can control is how you respond. But it helps to understand where your emotions are coming from so you can put them aside and respond from a higher place, a spiritual place.

Emotions are typically from the grieving process:
*DENIAL- It's not over yet, surely he'll change his mind, this can't be happening, etc.
*ANGER- HOW COULD HE!?!?!?!
*BARGAINING- What can I do differently to prevent this, there must be a way!
*DEPRESSION- I can't live without him, I want him to know that.

OK. That's a short example. But it's normal to be overwhelmed with those feelings.

Now you need to set them aside. What's the right thing to do? Act according to your beliefs and character. So my advice for any conversation would be to filter out the garbage and just listen, validate, and wish him the best. There's nothing else you can do that will help your sitch right now. Only things you can do to make it much worse.

Outside of interacting with him, it's time to do some work on yourself. DB/DR talk about 180s, LRT, etc. It is a time to reflect on your behavior during the M. And personally it is time to reflect on what your beliefs are, which is why I asked you the questions I did above.

For now, you can back burner that for 24 hours until you get through this meeting. After that I'd suggest you go dark and just work on yourself. There's no quick fix and no way to avoid a long, painful journey. You can either benefit from it and have a chance of R down the road, or you can avoid it and repeat it.

Breath and have faith.

[Zues126]

PS- thanks for the reply. I'll sit with that a bit. But as for running out of time, you're wrong...you just got a LOT of time! Check my thread in a bit, I'm about to post and bump it and I want you to read what I'll be posting shortly.

[Tulo]

Thank you so much for your reply!!
Even though I feel so in the dumps, it helps..

I think you are right, that I have no way of changing this now. All I can do is to try and behave in a way that doesn't make him totally against reaching out to me if he wants later on.
But this is so incredibly hard, as you know, so it feels like I can't breath. But I guess all I can do is to try and validate what he says and listen.

A few questions..

1. I have stuff of his here, would you bring it with you when we meet on Friday or save that for another time? It's just some clothes and small nicknack's.

2. He's going back to the US for work in 6 weeks time, he is staying for 5 weeks. He was supposed to bring back some items for me, since that shop don't deliver to Europe. Is it wrong of me to ask him if that still is ok? I thought that maybe when he comes back, we could meet and maybe maybe maybe he'd had some time to think things over and see that he had missed me..

3. Silly question, but I guess asking him if he wants a break where we go totally black for a month or so, wont do any good at this point?

4. We're friends on FB. Is that a bad thing for upcoming "going black"?

I'm gonna try to focus on myself, and my upcoming half marathon and hopefully

I will read your thread.. It's middle of the night here in Sweden now, but sleeping is soooo out of the question tonight..

THANK YOU again!!!

[Zues126]

Thank you so much for your reply!!
1. I have stuff of his here, would you bring it with you when we meet on Friday or save that for another time? It's just some clothes and small nicknack's.

2. He's going back to the US for work in 6 weeks time, he is staying for 5 weeks. He was supposed to bring back some items for me, since that shop don't deliver to Europe. Is it wrong of me to ask him if that still is ok? I thought that maybe when he comes back, we could meet and maybe maybe maybe he'd had some time to think things over and see that he had missed me..

3. Silly question, but I guess asking him if he wants a break where we go totally black for a month or so, wont do any good at this point?

4. We're friends on FB. Is that a bad thing for upcoming "going black"?

I will read your thread.. It's middle of the night here in Sweden now, but sleeping is soooo out of the question tonight..

THANK YOU again!!!

1. I wouldn't bring anything. That could be misinterpreted as guilting, dramatic, etc. Let him lead on how he wants to deal with that.

2. I wouldn't set up any future arrangements, that could seem very controlling or clingy. I'd just see if he brought it up. If not it depends on what we're talking about. If I could live without it I'd just let it go. If not, I would wait until he brought up the stuff at your place, then you could casually bring into the conversation about how he'd prefer to forward you your things.

3. Correct, it looks weak because he's not asking your permission. You are no longer working on things together. He is ignoring your wants/needs and just taking what he wants. It stinks. So it would be like asking a robber if they wanted to borrow some money.

4. I'm not on facebook so I don't know the etiquette. I would probably just leave it on there, quit checking it, and quit posting. Unfriending him could be misinterpreted. Posting lots of stuff for him to see or checking constantly could drive you crazy. Not checking it, and not posting is best. You stay detached, you stay dark. Maybe someday he'll wonder what you're up to?

If you don't have the discipline to do this maybe have your best friend change your password so you can't log in, then reevaluate in 30/60 days. That's actually pretty brilliant

Thank you for reading my thread. If you read my last post you'll see how far I've come. I hope you start with the VERY beginning (view all posts, last page, thread 1). You can't read them all in one night, but I didn't really post THAT much. And I've learned SO much in a year, I really feel that anyone that reads through them will learn some things. Not because I have it figured out, but because I don't...you can see not just "this is how to do things", but the whole evolution of me being broken to me being whatever the heck I am now. Happily broken?

Keep posting a lot too!

[Tulo]

Thanks Zues for your reply and guidance.

Just woke up and it's early morning here in Sweden. Not much sleep as expected, even my dreams are haunted and I wake up with a pit in my stomach big enough to swallow me whole.

A question. Would you believe him when he says that this has nothing to do with someone else, as in OW? I just feel it's so odd that it goes so quickly that I'm having a hard time thinking it's not involving someone else due to that..

Since it feels so sudden to me, and he even says that the hopes he's not making a mistake making this decision, and that he feels that times we spend together is nice and fun, and that he could make love to me every day, and that he's not in any hurry to figure this out, you still feel it's impossible for me to make any kind of option for him to want to try it some more? Or am I just shooting myself in the foot?

Feels like my foot is pretty much all blown anyway, so it doesn't matter at this point..

Do you think it's any possibility what so ever for me to EVER get him back? Or is any hope for that at this moment just self deception? I feel like I want to focus on what love is and for me it's giving, but at the moment I'm into the not getting the chance to even try part so maybe I'm just so out of wack that it's not even funny.

It feels like he's drowning himself in his kids at the moment, not taking a second to think about this on his own, but just forging ahead all guns blazing. Wish so much that he would stop for a second and think about what we've had and give us a chance to find our way back to that..

Oh, Zues. This hurts so bad, at this very instant. But you know, and you feel better now so hopefully I will do that too. But one long lonely summer is coming up, one I thought we'd share. It hurts like hell..

All my best to you and thank you for all your advice. It helps me, it really does!