I know there are no guarantees but.....

[RealMe]

Lost- I'm going to say something here that might not be at all what you want to hear....

YOU have to be the success story- no matter what happens w your R.

I know what brought you to this board. It is what brought most of us- a dire desire to save our R's. We all wanted tactics and methods to 'use' on our S.

I think what you might find is that some of the most 'successful' people on this board are the ones that make it about them and their life and happiness, and not about their wayward spouse.

[Cadet]

I finally read your whole book of a story,
and your exfather inlaw reminds me a lot of
my ex's father and mother.
They were originators of grand parents rights in the 80's.
And the general innuendo would be to sue almost anyone.

The only thing I can say to you is that this is also the parents of your wife.
She had to deal with them growing up and I am sure that
was not easy.
What was she saying or doing during all these trials and
escapades with her father and step son?
Did she make her wishes known to you?
What was her childhood like?

I can say with much certainty that DB'ing works.
If you are looking for a magic button, or a quick fix
I will also guarantee that you will not find it.

Keep posting.

[XFit14]

RealMe,

I am pretty thick skinned and can take whatever you want to say....that includes a 2 x 4 and a bucket of water to wake me up if I am in fantasy land. I understand that working on myself is a win win situation. if it gets my wife back so much the better but if it doesn't ....I'm still ..better. I don't have a bad opinion of myself now. I've dealt with being short(er) than most guys all my life and with some freckles and bad teeth / smile. I developed an attitude after high school that this is me...take me as I am. I have worked out and eaten healthy since high school and been told I don't remotely look like the age I am (44). I also recently underwent oral surgery and currently have braces. . . for the third and final time! I have been going out with friends, working out more than ever, some counseling and a lot of reading and self ......inner inspection. I get that the LAST thing I want to do is take any of the old (meant angry) me...into the next relationship or even worse ....back to the old one if that is what I am lucky enough to have happen. I'm not trying to make it about my Wayward spouse although I will honestly say with as fresh and raw as the divorce is it is kind of all consuming right now. I go through periods when I am a M E S S and when I am ok (right now) and I know time will heal. I'd like her back is all.....

[XFit14]

Cadet,

Sorry it was so long but the background needed to be put out there.
Most people that hear the story (minus the divorce part as that is new (FUN!!)) usually sit there with their mouths open in amazement that someone could do the things this guy has done to my wife and our family.

Yes I know these are my wife's parents and I carry a LARGE amount of guilt that she has NO relationship with them.(although I hear that now that I am gone that the parents have since reached out and are attempting to reconcile....apparently she is not all that eager... for now at least).
From conversations we had I know she grew up much the same as me.
Parents were strict but not tyrants.
Money was tight but not poverty level. Parents both worked. Discipline was done by dad when he got home...with a belt.
We both had decent childhoods.
In terms of dealing with her dad.....we know he felt guilty that he was gone a lot when she and her brother were growing up.
As such, we feel he is trying to be there more as a father to MY son since he wasn't much of one or around much when they were growing up.
We tried explaining that he already raised his family and this was my / our chance to raise ours....he didn't care and didn't back off.
It got worse.
She developed the attitude of letting it roll off her back...which I believe she wanted me to do. She knew she couldn't control him and if he was going to sue us he was going to sue us and nothing she said or did was going to change that.
I am a major type A personality and very protective of what (I feel) God gave me...my wife and son.
As far as I was concerned we were at war and he was attacking my family...repeatedly.
He kept at it and since I can't ..... you know physically retaliate due to laws and my current career it just built up and built up.....

It is of some comfort to know that there are successes and that you say this works.
Regardless of what aspect you are looking at it from....the part where I become better or the part where I become better AND get my wife back.
I know there is no magic button although I would push it like a million times if there was one.
I guess my big question and one I have seen asked a bunch of times is...if I make all these positive changes how is she ever going to know if we don't have contact??
What is going to prompt her to want to see what kind of person I might be if she is with someone else already??
I know I have more reading to do and techniques to learn.....don't get frustrated with me....im just hurting right now.
Im sorry

[Cadet]

Well a quote that is attributed to me although I did not invent it is

"TRUST the PROCESS"

Make the changes - Do the Work and concentrate on YOU, and
YOU will not FAIL!

25MLC says - Make yourself into a person that only a fool would leave.

They do notice your changes, I can guarantee you that.
Right this minute, I know all this makes no sense to you.

Have you ever read Alice in Wonderland?
Well you have jumped down the rabbit hole and you are now in wonderland.
Things here don't make sense.
The things we tell you are counter intuitive.

I have studied this a great deal,
and I finally started to understand the science
behind this,
So your question is almost like if I drop this ball from the
second story of a house why does it go down?
Well here on earth it goes down, but on a space ship where does it go?

Do you even know where you are right now?

Knowledge is Power

[XFit14]

Morning Cadet,

I got your message last night but where I am in the states it was pretty late and I was exhausted. As I am sure you can attest to...sleeping has been difficult. I don't sleep well as it is sometimes and this has just made it worse. Monday night I didn't hardly sleep at all and last night wasn't much better.
I am at work now but now that I am here....it is the last place I want to be.
I come in before everyone else ususlly (it's 0500 here now) so I have some alone time to drink coffee and think and write.
I read what you wrote a few times so I could digest it and respond.
I get that this is all going to feel discombobulated (IDK if I spelled that one right or not but it felt like the appropriate word) and counter intuitive.
I WANT to grab her and shake her and scream WHAT ARE YOU DOING!?!?
I want to try to make her see that she is walking away (or has walked away) from something that is very salvageable. MWD said something in her book, (and I am loosely interpreting because I can't find the page right this second) that once the husband finds out what he was doing to cause the problems in the marriage if the wife would stick around she would see amazing changes.
I don't believe we had a bad marriage per se.
We had a huge obstacle (my father in law and my anger at the situation) that would not quit trying to crush us and unfortunately he won.
I, again, have tried looking at this from her perspective.....if I could start a relationshiop with someone new that wasn't angry and didn't have any old or new drama with my (her)parents (and probably wont because they wont have to deal with any of those issues now that my son is older and making his own decisions on when he wants to visit and when he doesnt want to see C).
ON that note would the grass look greener.....well hell yeah it would. But I took vows and I took them very seriously which is the other reason I waited til I was 37 to get married. I, like the rest of you I am sure, only wanted to do this once with the person that takes our breath away and that we can NOT wait to see at the end of the day.

I am trying to trust the process Cadet.
I was doing pretty well with all of it until Monday.
I was a WRECK all day yesterday but it is not something that she witnessed or will ever know about so I dont believe I backslid in that area.
I was asked in an earlier post if I still had contact with my son (step son) and yes I do.
Mostly by text and I try to see him at least once a week.
She has yet to be around when I have picked him up (she was home but didn't come outside and the new guy was there).
I have written before that she (and my son) have questioned why I am making such an effort now when I didnt during the marriage to have a better relationship with my son. (Please ....this makes me sound so horrible so if you are reading this post and dont have the backstory go back and read that because it will shine a lot of light on what I mean by those statements before someone remarks on it) I have explained to them both (separately) and to my son in a huge letter a month or so ago.
He gets it and has opened up more to me continuing to be in his life even though his mom and I arent together anymore (since this past Monday legally and since the first week of Feb 2015 physically).
In terms of my ex....I don't know if maintaining that contact with him (step son) is a good idea or not??
Does it make me readily available to her or make her mad because I am doing now what I should have been doing all along?
Should I continue and if I do does it negate the going dark process? Or does she even care one way or the other because now I know there is someone else she is seeing.
I'm pretty sure I am going to be told that I need to do what makes me happy and not worry about what she says, thinks or does and I get that.
But the fear of all of us Left Behind is that we will do something that will further push our ex's, or soon to be ex's, away or that they will never see the work we are doing to change and become the guy / gal they originally fell in love with.
I KNOW I checked out for a while....this has been a HUGE and much needed eye opener to me on how my negative attitude towards life and being angry was affecting everything....my work, my family life, my marriage and relationships with my own family. I get it and I have done a complete 180.
I am rambling but what I am getting at is I am trying to trust the process.

The quote from MLC is a good one. I believe I am a 'catch'. (I dont right this second but in general I do)I have worked hard to attain the career I have, I have survived some close calls and come out on top.
Financially I am in decent shape and not over extended. I work out and am in great physical shape (in general and defintiely for my age) and this year (2014) I finally took steps to improve my smile which is a big deal.
I have not been very proud of my smile in a long time so I dont smile very often.
It is so much better now!!! Braces are still on but it is 100% improved!! I dont think she liked to kiss me as much as I wanted to kiss her because of it (just a guess). I think I AM a person that only a fool would leave which is one of the reasons I am having such a hard time with her leaving and moving on to someone else so quickly...

Cadet.....I know I need that smack with the 2 x 4 but HOW do they see the changes??

She has only seen me one time physically in more than a month and that was at our divorce on Monday.
I am NOT hard headed, dense or thick.....I know you said this is a process and that this is going to take time (i get it) that there is no magic button (I know) and that things will feel totally the opposite of what I want to do (I understand that).
I also get that I am not changing FOR her.....I am changing FOR ME and if she gets to reep the benefits from it then so much the better. What I am struggling with is how will she ever know . . . .

Your last question on do I even know where I am right now??
I dont know if I understand that. If I had to answer just at face value.....I am in limbo to a certina extent in that I don't know which way to turn.
I know there is nothing I can physically do to change her mind and showing up on her doorstpe, crying, begging, pleading (Which I have done none of) will not work and will only make myself look foolish and less desirable.
I wont lie that I want to send cards and flowers and love notes and all that stuff telling her to give this a shot and we can make it work.
I havent and wont.
Like I said at the start of this.....I was doing ok emotionally during this whole process until Monday.
Now that it is officially over and I know she has someone else and it seemed like it was just no big deal (she even wanted to wait at the court for the paper work to get copied rather than just get it in the mail.
Almost as if she wanted to have the proof with her that it was over (Speculation)) and I am cheerfully waiting with her asking questions about her new house and the dog and talking about our son and inside ...I am DYING!

So....to answer that question ...NO I dont know where I am right now

[sandi2]

Man, was my timing bad! I don't know what happened, but you had not posted any of your story when I wrote that reply. Anyway, I nearly lost my breath when you said you were divorced yesterday!

Your history with girlfriends is sad.....and so unfair. It must not be an uncommon experience, b/c I know of some other men who say about the same thing. They are not bad looking, and they treat the girls like any lady would want to be treated. In their case, and I bet with you too, it's not them....it's the girls. Don't give up and don't blame yourself into believing something's wrong with you.

Believe it or not, I can identify partly with your source of anger. I had a MIL who did everything in her power to take my place with my D. There is more to that story, but it definitely had a negative impact on my relationship with my child, as well as with my H. If it had not been for my MIL, I believe my marital history would have been very different. And, that's what is so tragic in your story, also. The problems seem to come from outside the M, instead of between the two of you.

Unfortunately, it appears she has now taken the wayward highway. Your step-son may be the only link between you and XW. Right now, you are doing exactly what you need to do for a time. Stay dark and take care of yourself. Continue getting therapy is important, and I'll tell you why, Lost14. You have a lot to be angry about, and it could result in destroying a good man. Bitterness is like a cancer, and I hope you will do whatever it takes to get rid of it and to heal. That is the best gift you can give yourself and to those who love you. Okay?

She is going to need time to play the girls-gone-wild part for a while. She may go through more than one guy, IDK. You man not even want her back, by the time she gets done. Even though she probably needs counseling as much, if not more than you, it will do no good for you to try to convince her to go. Just stay out of the way and let her burn the candle at both ends, if that's what she decides to do. It will be difficult, b/c you still love her, but she needs to have a span of time without you in her life. Then at some point, the opportunity will present itself where she either runs into you, calls you, or sees you when you get step-son. If the timing is right, it could trigger a spark of old feelings in her. (And later we can discuss how you would respond.) That doesn't mean it fixes things, but given space & time...it can start to do a lot of positive work in these situations. In the meantime, you being out of the picture, allows her that space & time to where you are not necessarily her target to blame with unhappiness.

People handle sorrow, disappointment, and stress differently. With you, it was turned into anger and it overtook your MR, as well as the rest of your life. She went through the same experiences as you did, and maybe even dealt with more from an emotional side of things. It was her own father who was acting like a maniac. Her son was being affected, as well as the H she loved. When you went around angry all the time, I would think it made her feel even worse. She must have felt torn, not to mention the guilt.

Speaking of guilt, I would also think she felt pretty guilty that she couldn't give you children. Miscarriages are very emotional on a woman. Disappointment, grief, and guilt. I am sure you shared those feelings, as well. I am truly sorry for what you both went through.

I don't know how much of her behavior may be the result of all she's gone through. I think many women begin affairs out of sadness, looking for an escape from their present reality. She must have had times when almost anything would have looked a little bit greener than where she was standing.

I believe there are at least three things living in the heart of a WW. Resentment, rebellion, and loss of respect. How long will it take for them to leave her heart? I don't know, but I know it is possible. I know that much!

DBing is about saving yourself, first. I don't know that there was another WW at the time I came on board. I was a pretty hot mess when I arrived. Most all the advice is geared toward the LBS, so here I was the one who was the wayward spouse. Well, thankfully, the wonderful board members did not take out their own hurt on me, and gave me the tools I needed to get on the right road again. So, if it can help me, I believe you can get the support you so desperately need.

Remember, save yourself first.

[Cadet]

I know I need that smack with the 2 x 4 but HOW do they see the changes??

Are you asking me how, like with their eyes and ears.

or

Are you asking me when?

They will notice your changes when they are ready.
Maybe not before that, but maybe,
I think you ex-w is already noticing and trying to
test you about your involvement with your son.

Are you asking me are the changes to attract them back?
No the changes are for YOU.
They are not to win the WAS back.
The changes must be real because if they are fake then
they will not stick and they will also know that.

So I am not sure if that answers your question or if you are asking something else.

[Mozza]

I hope you realize you're lucky to get such great advice from several vets.

A technical suggestion: Change your username. Lost14 is generic and we already have a Lost18. Choose something more unique to you, prounouncable. Maybe Crossfit? This way you'll stand out more, people will remember your sitch more easily and you'll get better advice.

You might want to read my sitch because my WW also left me and lives with an OM. I'm not a success story in the sense of a reconciliation (yet) but I've progressed a lot in the last few months and I can say that I'm feeling better and heading towards happiness. By the way, my MIL detested me so much (by birth) that she ignored her only child (my W) for two years, including the time of our first pregnancy and birth. She did not poison our R like your FIL did though.

Cadet gave you great advice about your changes. Focus on making them, not on how or when she will see them. With your SS16 anyway, there will ways be a channel. Keep in mind that success stories take some 1-2 years. Don't expect anything just now, work on yourself.

[XFit14]

Sandi2, I only now ready your first few sentences so I will comment more in a minte but dont worry about it. I understand why you were saying wnhy you did...timing or not