Respectfully, I did not word my comments for her H to assume responsibility for how she feels. I said "I feel.." It's authentic. If he feels like a dog, maybe he should feel like one.
Had she called him on the carpet in front of their D7, I think it would be counterproductive, and it would pull her into their struggle.
She's married to a passive aggressive person. Read up on that dynamic. When dealing with one, you have to assume responsibility for how you feel and let them make decisions on their own. You don't word "You make me feel..." because 1) that's unfair, and 2) nobody makes anyone feel anything. However, how he acts does affect how she feels, and she's entitled to tell him that she feels disrespected.
I do agree that she doesn't owe him any explanations of her plans, and I also agree that she allowed a choice that just might give him the impression that he will always be allowed to make these kind of decisions/adjustments on the fly down the road.
If he is offended by what she says, it's up to her to figure out if how she words things is offensive. If it's just direct and honest, then it's him who should take a look at how he acts and see if his a*holeism isn't the root of his troubles. It's not her fault he's an a*hole, and she doesn't have to let him set the terms of parenting time.
My XH is extremely P/A. But when I told him how I felt rather than slam him for being an a*hole, he responded well and ceased those types of behaviors. Assuming things can be adjusted is how a P/A person rolls. They don't and won't speak up and say, "Hey Raliced, I had a conflict come up and need to see if there is any way we can switch today." Instead, they act as if there is nothing wrong (because they will do whatever they can to avoid any possibility of conflict) and then do what they want to do anyway. It's easier for them to be called an a*hole than it is to confront those scary demons and learn new ways of communicating.
I should know. I spent my fair share of time dealing with this issue in my 15 year marriage. My XH has pretty much stopped behaving this way with me because I make it safe to disagree with me now. Ten years post D, we have a much different parenting R than we did when this started.
BTW, why did you feel attacked by a woman commenting about the heavy bags? I don't get why you felt attacked? Why didn't you just ask your D, "is something the matter?" That doesn't make you an incompetent parent. And if you assume people think you are, I'd challenge you dig a little deeper. If you *are* incompetent (which I don't believe), then you read a bunch of parenting books and get some advice from smart people or sign up for Love and Logic classes through their website. If you aren't, why are you oversensitive and making things out to be something that isn't?
My XH (and I) may have made some horrible decisions in our own marriage, but I have never wondered about his parenting. I don't get the overall impression that raliced thinks he's a lousy parent. Being asked about behaviors or situations does not imply incompetence. It just means that she doesn't understand something and wants more information. Nothing more, and nothing less.
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
"H, I want to get on the same page about how you handled the change in plans with D7 last week. I felt you put her on the spot, as she agonized about it on our way home. You also didn't ask me if I had plans. So in the future, if you have any inkling that you're going to want to do a switch, will you please talk with me privately first?"
Our S agreement spells out that schedule changes are to be handled between the two of us, kids are never to be put in the middle. If this had happened to me, I'd handle it pretty much exactly this way.
Do not allow any changes to the schedule. D7 was given a choice because you allowed it, because your STBX assumed that you would allow it. I don't care if it was late, if you start introducing this kind of flexibility, the whole thing becomes a mess. With me, the home rules are as reliable as the laws of physics. They apply all the time, no negotiation, no doubt. This is how we end up planning around them. So your STBX could have prepared the car before the end of the game to leave earlier. He could consider adjusting the schedule so that these things would not happen. But he could not assume that things can be adjusted at the last minute.
By the way, it may sound harsh, but it's actually a much gentler approach in the long run because you avoid all these confrontations, the compromises that are frustrating or rejected.
But Mozza, life is about compromise. It's about frustration and rejection and getting over it. It's about tolerance and compassion and flexibility. That's what makes us humans.
I agree that it's best to keep to a consistent schedule, but sometimes the best interest of the child has to override that. If my H says, can you switch with me and I say no, then he does what he wants anyway and gets a babysitter or pawns her off on a friend. And if I truly had something else to do, then fine, but if I'm refusing to switch just to be a hard *ss, then, well, that's not in the best interest of my kid. I'd prefer she be with me, and she'd prefer to be here.
I respect that a completely rigid schedule works for you, Mozza. I'm just offering another viewpoint.
My Goodness - sometimes I'm a little surprised by which posts get the most answers. It's never the ones I think.
I should preface all of this by saying - I don't think a reconciliation is totally impossible - but when I envision it, it is a remote possibility that could only happen after years have gone by. I don't know what the heck is going on with him, and I don't think its a MLC - but he is in some kind of crisis - and I have no idea what may end up emerging. Therefore - my goal that I am focused on now is to get us to some sort of healthier place as parents. (I should probably move my thread out of Newcomers - I don't really belong here, I guess)
Maaahty and Ahoy (It's always great to hear from you Ahoy, hope things are going well! I miss you!), Thank You. I guess I should clarify, that I don't really give two hoots about how he felt at that moment - I'm just fumbling around trying to keep D7 from being in that position again, and our communication as parents is a major work in progress.
Mozza, Thanks for dropping in as well- you always have an interesting perspective! We will have to agree to disagree about the schedule changes (although I see the value in your approach). I want to live in a world where we accommodate each others schedules as busy working adults. STBX is a cop and it is not at all unusual for him to have to testify in court, have additional training or be called into an emergency on his days off. Schedule changes will happen. Also- one of the big issues to me as we negotiated our child custody arrangement is that he chose to live an hour away in an area that can only be reached through a difficult, dangerous, winding mountain road. Because of his job, his days off (when he can have the kids) are always on school days, and it has always seemed to me that it would be hard for the kids to get up an hour early for school, then go to extra curricular activities, then drive for an hour back to his house so that they can spend an hour with him before bed time. I have to say part of me was kind of gratified that he finally acknowledged that in his own way.
I wasn't involved in the coat incident (that was Claire) although I'm perfectly capable of saying something like that. Even before reading a zillion threads here, I have been aware that men can be sensitive about their parenting skills being called into question. STBX is particularly sensitive because he felt his own father let him down in this regard. He's very capable of taking good care of the kids. I have always been very vocal about saying he's a good, involved dad, even after BD (I have more to say about this topic but will leave it to the end). I think it's very important to him that people see him as a good dad. But you know....in 7 years, he has never once said- "Raliced - you're a good mom".
Betsey, Thank you. Your XH and my STBX certainly do seem to share some similarities and since you successfully navigated to the other side - its very helpful to hear your perspective. I've been giving some thought about being authentic when I discuss this with him. I didn't like the situation but that's because I don't like seeing D7 distressed. So I was thinking of something like "Hey Mr. Raliced, the other night D7 ended up crying in my car all the way home, it was probably the right choice to make but she said it made her feel like she was choosing between us. Do you think next time, we can talk about it with each other, and leave her out of it?"
Here's the other thing - Right now, at this moment in time, I can't authentically say I am bothered by his assumption that I am free to take D7. The truth is, this is all fresh enough, that I still loathe the times they are away, and I will take every precious moment with them that I can. Eventually, I will probably feel different and when that time comes - I hope to be able to effectively communicate that to him.
One last comment about his being a good father, and I know I'm going to sound all judgy and self righteous here. Truth be told, I don't know that I think he is a good father right now. Good fathers don't sleep around, abandon their marriage, move in directly an hour away with an OW and immediately expose the kids to her. They don't take away their kid's sense of security and split household finances. Yes, kids can come out of divorce ok, (and many do- including people on this board and the children of people on this board) but they are still at higher risk of poverty, drug and alcohol abuse, not finishing school and emotional problems. In his work- he has a front row seat to this every day and he still did this knowingly.
All that being said - it's not a life sentence you know? And I want him to be a good father. I want to be a good mother. I want us to support each other in being good parents. It's just clearly going to be a rocky journey to get there. I look forward to the day when a conversation like this is not such a big deal - and I will put in the work to make that happen.
Thanks Rpp!- We cross posted. I was thinking of you as I wrote my response - as I think you and I are both in the camp that we will take any time we can get with our kids.
I was thinking of you as I wrote my response - as I think you and I are both in the camp that we will take any time we can get with our kids.
Yes, without a doubt. When H and I were hashing out our S agreement, he made the observation that "if we (do X), then neither of us will ever get a free weekend." Boy, that fried me. I replied along the lines of, this is about our kids, not our social lives, I don't get free weekends now, and if I never have one again, so be it. Not very validating, and to this day I don't care. And truth is, I never have a truly "free" weekend, D17 rarely goes to her dad's place (I think she's been there 4 times in almost 5 months) and she's never been on a weekend. Now, I obviously don't need a babysitter for a 17yo, but I also don't pass up available weekend hours with her. If she's home, I usually am, too.
Anyway, good luck Raliced, I hope you find the best way to address this. Do what you feel is best and don't worry about STBX reacts.
I now realize that I overstated my position when I sad "do not allow any change to the schedule. The fact is that, even under our rigid system, I've agreed to five changes over the last seven months. The reasons were a wedding, a funeral, an oversea visitor (FIL), a sick day, and even a romantic trip for WW and OM (I've never asked any change). So I'm certainly not trying to stick it to WW and make her life more difficult, quite the opposite: all the changes were to accommodate her, even when it was hurtful to me (four of these five were hurtful in some way).
I meant that the kind of last minute change like had just happened, but also the kind of change that make every second week a negotiation, for the slightest accommodation. I believe Maybell is dealing with something like this, and starting to set up boundaries.
As for your STBX not complimenting your parenting, it's quite sad. In my M, we always made sure to repeat how supportive we were of each other's parenting and tell everyone about it, even if we something criticized the work or decisions of the other. I'll say that the flip side of fathers being considered incompetent by default is that the work that mothers do is taken for granted. Dads do 50%: "Wow, amazing!" Moms do 50%: "You have such a great H!" You seem to excel at everything you do and I can only expect that you're also a great mom.
Underdog - I knew that D7 made her bag look heavy because she tends to be lazy and uses such tactics to get out of certain tasks. My decision to load her bag this way was based on 7 years of raising her. This woman came out of context and I did not owe her a background story. Hope this clarifies.
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
Well after all of that hand wringing, here's what ended up happening . I wrote him an email about some other scheduling stuff for the summer and at the end said "So the other night D7 ended up crying all the way home. It was the right decision, but she took it as choosing between us. Maybe you and I could discuss these kinds of things and leave her out of it".
He never responded. He used to always acknowledge emails with at least an "Ok" but he hasn't for the last few weeks. Along with the lack of Facetiming D7, it seems like he's moved to another level of withdrawal. Maybe I scared him off with the two friendly texts I sent a couple of weeks ago.
Anyway - tonight was another softball game. He barely showed up on time with D7. Game lasted a long time so same issue as last week. Didn't talk to me, but instead apparently had a lengthy conversation with her prior to the game that she wasn't choosing between us - she was just choosing where to sleep. And she ended up coming home with me. So I guess he handled it in his own way - but still put her in the position of choosing. So - I'm not really happy about it - but I'm also tired and will think about it more tomorrow. I'm sure this is bound to come up one way or the other again.
Lots of stuff needed to be done with D7. She wanted to learn how to pitch and to do better at batting - so I bought a bunch of extra balls, drove her to the park a couple of times and tutored her. We worked on her part for the school play that is happening in a few weeks. It's about animals in the rainforest and she does great until she gets to a specific line and slips into a weird accent - so "the forest is a pharmacy" becomes the "faaahwuus is a phaaamacy". It drives me crazy but I try not to show it . We got all of her regular homework done ahead of time because she'll be particularly busy during the week. She has a special report due soon on the Giant River Otter. We're also supposed to come up with a visual representation (the instructions came with the dreaded words "Be Creative!"). We decided we'll try paper mache - given that the river otter is a long, cylindrical, brown animal - I am worried this might end up badly.
D3's needs are simpler. We've been watching a lot of Warner Bros cartoons lately and as long as I let her chase me while saying "Beep! Beep!" and engage in some "Duck Season! Rabbit Season!" repartee - she's happy.
And of course - there's lots of stuff to be done around the house. In addition to the usual stuff there is still a fair amount of garden clean up. And my adult nephew is visiting this week- so I managed to get the house "visitor ready" and to make a few of his favorite cakes.
Why do I mention all of this? I don't know quite how to put this - but I'm in a place right now where I feel totally and completely disconnected from STBX - given that we've been separated for 9 months and that he's been primarily incommunicado during that time, you'd think this would have happened earlier - but I have always had this feeling that there was a gaping hole where he is supposed to be. I couldn't help but miss our previous comfortable and familiar routine and my life just felt so disjointed and full of upheaval. The very fact of his absence made him seem omnipresent.
Not any more.
Those feelings have gone. I don't know if this is permanent or fleeting, but I feel completely present and settled in my new reality. Our life is sometime messy and chaotic - but it is rich and fulfilling and I don't want to miss it.
That doesn't mean I'm immune to emotions regarding him and this situation. I still have moments of white hot anger and frequent moments of frustration. And sometimes I feel pity. My heartstrings still get plucked on a daily basis when I see how this hurts the kids. But...he just doesn't feel close to me anymore - he's not part of "Our".
Maybe this is a phase - there sure seem to be a lot of them after BD. Maybe we're approaching rock bottom and we have to live there for awhile before we can rebuild some sort of amicable co-parenting relationship.
I have built a separate life with the girls and when he appears it actually feels kind of intrusive (to me, not the girls of course).
Still hate that this happened. But it did happen and there is still a lot of life to be lived.
