WAS asked for divorce today.

[25yearsmlc]

[quote=25yearsmlc]
The guilt a WAS feels, IF ANY, almost always converts into resentment of the person "causing" the guilt. No spouse returns and stays in a marriage, because of shame. And it's certainly not likely to spur any romantic feelings.

The "cause" of the guilt is the infidelity. NOT the reaction to infidelity. A betrayed spouse could do absolutely nothing. Behave completely stoic and the wayward spouse would FEEL ashamed.

Georgia Bull Dog

Please note that I put the word "Cause" in quotes b/c I'm saying it from the perspective of the WAS, not you or the LBS. I guess I need to make that more clear...but if a woman has had an affair (which we do NOT know here)

Statistics show us that they tend to feel justified. Unlike some men (more of whom can have casual affairs) married women tend to have rationalized, rightly or wrongly, their behavior. They often describe themselves as feeling "forced" or "pushed into the arms" of OM By behaviors or neglect of their h


Only a stubborn fool would refuse to look at their own role in this perspective. That's not to "Blame" the h, it's to objectively own our part in our marital situations.


I commend NewGuy for digging deep b/c it's a brave thing to do and the real journey in life is an inward one.

I still believe condemning his wife does not serve any good purpose.

I also think it plays right into her narrative (and HIS OWN!) of him being critical and judgmental (and what's more judgmental than declaring that someone we have NO proof of having cheated, "Should be ashamed"?

No one is here to be "declared right" or "the TRUE victim".

Sometimes we have to choose whether we want to be "right", or happy.

People that behave badly SHOULD feel ashamed.


The focus in DBing is on doing what works. Shaming them or pronouncing that they "should feel ashamed" is not effective very often. Usually It backfires, which is what my original point was. And there's data supporting that in the DB books.

Besides, self righteous fury takes so much energy, energy that could be spent on our own growth.

Speaking from personal experience,

I wasted a year of my life being furious & justifying it - and becoming an angry bitter woman - not better -

AND asking questions that had no "good" answer. That's a year I'll never get back. And life is too short.

Why surrender to or champion the cause of anger? How that does help him?

And for the record, there is a real difference between remorse and shame.

If and when a woman cheats and IF and when she feels remorse for it, that's a crucial milestone. That is a cross roads.

if she feels shame, the data suggests she will NOT stay there wallowing in it for long (most people can't wallow in shame. For one thing, it's not healthy and so

They either make changes in their life and turn over a new leaf

AND OR they blame the person that they BELIEVE "caused" the guilt/shame.

Plus, there is usually an element of self righteousness in the LBSer who declares that their spouse "Should be ashamed". It's just not as likely to lead to reconciliation and that is still THIS MAN'S goal.

I'm not a believer that "only cheaters seek out divorce". There's such a thing as an unhappy marriage, without adultery.

And fantasizing about an unknown but kinder, more loving spouse is not adultery; it's wishing (praying) for more.

I think a lot of this is more complicated sometimes.

My wife came back to me in shame. She still feels guilt to this day and overwhelmed by what she put me through and yet I remained.

Well goodness, Does it sound to you as if she has recovered

or does she have some PTSD?

I'm being sincere. If she "still feels guilt"a decade later, it sounds as if she does not feel forgiven.

Can you discuss more of that aspect?

And before this gets awkward or tense, this is not a contest and there is no competition here.

FTR, I'm a DB follower. I don't come here and suggest other alternative methods to marital crises. (There are other sites for those approaches, and they're plenty fine!)

But DBing does Not stress or focus on shame or guilt.
In my sessions with my DB coach (a true Godsend)

I found A LOT of focus on [b]forgiveness and how to do it. I never saw forgiveness growing up - so I had to learn it.

Without forgiveness on both sides along the way, I cannot see long term marriages lasting happily.



I didn't "shame her" back and I never held her betrayal over her head. But I did fight the affair and I did do a non-vindictive exposure to a small group of friends and family. Like Starsky I merely asked for prayerful support for her, myself and our children. [/b]

Last I checked I could not find your thread, but perhaps you have posted it since. There's little data in your signature block so I can't really comment on your situation in an informed manner.

In any case, Asking for prayerful support is wonderful; it's one thing most of us do.

Exposing to 3rd parties is NOT encouraged here; it's opposed.

Not to sound insulting, but I've read a lot of your posts & you tend to presume affairs before evidence of them appears, and you suggest the same "Exposure" theme

so I wonder whether you have read the book(s). No offense.

However, DB's author MWD opposes exposure -and There are lots of reasons for that which she gives and which I could add to.

Yet I believe that none of those reasons are going to persuade you, or you'd already be persuaded. And I see no point debating that here.

What worked for ME is what I learned and followed in the DB teachings. So that's what I post about here.

And since Newguy is not asking for us to comment on the subject of exposure, (and since what his wife is presently doing now (dating) will NOT be seen as "cheating" by most people "out there" b/c she has filed for divorce ---

I'm not sure how productive or relevant this piece of the story is. Again, it's about the DB approach and doing what works. Not doing 'anything that works" - but DB's methods...

As for Starsky, shoot, he and I have gone around and around about this. But Starskys' case has lots of dimensions to it, and among them is his own personal growth.

Anyway, for sure Starsky doesn't need me to speak for him.

ANDDDDDDD ~ we are romantically in love with each other and recovered over a decade.

I know you said "almost always" but I know plenty of other exceptions to this rule in my real life besides just us.

Other instances where short term shame and guilt helps motivate struggling lost "wayward" type persons would be any kind of intervention for drugs and alcohol. Nobody would tell those families NOT to intervene because the target addict will most certainly come to resent them for trying to shame and guilt them into treatment.


As a person in recovery now for 17 years, let me say I utterly & totally disagree with this^^ analysis.

It's shame that kept my secret hidden and shame/guilt that prevented me from seeking help much sooner.

it was love, HOPE and compassion that spurred me to believe I could get better and that motivated me to seek help.

I cannot stress this^^ enough.

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Add ~ it is possible to have righteous anger AND reflect and grow. The posters wife just filed for divorce and you want him to reflect on his role in her banging another man

How can you read what I wrote and THEN put that twisted spin on it? That's not at all an accurate summary of my words.

Period.

I see that this is pointless now.