My First Break, Light Shines Yonder

[Cadet]

You can not CONTROL her, only you can control yourself!
You do understand that right?

I do Cadet.

Another way I can think of it is in terms of this "contradiction". How can I let go to the extent of giving her my blessing so to speak, AND at the same time want to resurrect the M. OK, I suspect that this may be exactly what I should be aiming for, but every 2nd post (exaggerated) seems to be about action to take in order to solicit a positive response. This doesn't gel for me.

I understand it doesnt gel for you,
no one said that letting go is giving your blessing.

It has taken me a very long time to understand all the dynamics that occur here.
I have read over 30 books on the subjects and taken some online classes.
I am only going to say DO THE WORK and you too will understand.
Knowledge is Power.

Do you want to do that?

[Pyrite]

Thanks Zeus.

I know you're learning a lot. The fact that you're deliberating on your replies, not doing it reactively, are trying to steer your ship off of character, not burning bridges...those are great starts. But ultimately you want to save your M. That is the goal that matters. Until that happens you have to continue to learn and grow, and that requires humility.

PS- I love your participation in the boards. Keep posting, and relax. This is a marathon, you can't win today.

There is a lot I could reply to but I am a bit lost right now. I am actually sitting on my daughters bed. 3 nights in a row now she just cries in the middle of the night. She is back to sleep now, but I want to be here if she wakes up again. I would sleep with her (as is very common - but it only early here)

I feel I should tell you more about what I have learned about myself over the last few weeks. But this is still a work in progress. I have glossed over external results of those things, which I know I need to put in place OR things which have helped me to "Achieve" certain things. This is perhaps what gives the impression that I think I have actually achieved these things. But this absolutely untrue. I am still a mess. I spent the last 3 hours of last nights sleep wide awake. Ranging from giving my wife my my "blessing" to leave TO wording my one liner to show her how much she has hurt me and how much I hate her.

When I have the girls, the fist thing I have in the morning is 1-2 hours with the little one (early riser). She melts my heart. Then D4 comes a racing into my arms. Off weeks is another story though. D4 has been more and more ...."vocal" about restoring M and family .

I get a lot out of being here. Posting, reading and even getting 2*4'ed. I even (can) appreciate Mr Bond's criticisms. Just at times I feel he is overboard. Sometimes he is right, I admit that, but sometimes he seems to be missing the context comments were even made in.

I have learnt so much in the short time I have been here. I sense skepticism form pretty much everybody, but I really have. i'll talk more about this another time. I have changed my behaviour. I'm sure people around me have noticed. I have noticed. And I dont see myself falling away from this and back into old habits (I hope), but it still feels .....empty.

[Pyrite]

absolutely. Can't tonight though. Kids. custody mediation tomorrow. back to WORK in a few days. meanwhile "practising" what I can with people around me.

[Cadet]

I get a lot out of being here. Posting, reading and even getting 2*4'ed. I even (can) appreciate Mr Bond's criticisms. Just at times I feel he is overboard. Sometimes he is right, I admit that, but sometimes he seems to be missing the context comments were even made in.

I have learnt so much in the short time I have been here. I sense skepticism form pretty much everybody, but I really have. i'll talk more about this another time. I have changed my behaviour. I'm sure people around me have noticed. I have noticed. And I dont see myself falling away from this and back into old habits (I hope), but it still feels .....empty.

First of all being here is like eating an elephant.
The task is very daunting at first, but the only way to do it is one bite at a time.

We have all been in the same place as you, including Mr Bond.
I was sure that I could find a CURE - Nope didn't happen.
Our journey is not all that much different than our spouses, although we may be miles ahead of them.
Until we hit rock bottom, we wont do the work and change either, cause people dont change until the PAIN of changing is less than the PAIN of staying the same.
I wish this was easier, it is not!

I can tell you the basics are all contained in my very first post.
Detach, GAL, and take care of YOURSELF.
Including eating, sleeping, and exercising.

I have someone else that I am advising that works fours jobs and sleeps maybe 2 hours out of every 48, I have begged and pleaded with him to take care of himself, did he.
NOPE
Even after totaling his car in a car accident, so I dont know what will work.
I know that I can't FIX him as he is just a poster on a marriage board.

Please get some sleep Pyrite and take care of YOURSELF!

[Pyrite]

Thanks Cadet.

I was sure that I could find a CURE - Nope didn't happen.
Our journey is not all that much different than our spouses, although we may be miles ahead of them.
Until we hit rock bottom, we wont do the work and change either, cause people dont change until the PAIN of changing is less than the PAIN of staying the same.

Superficially it would appear W is miles ahead of me! I know I shouldn't be daydreaming about HER life, but as I have commented before, it is entirely possible that she moves on from here without changing anything about herself and lives a full and happy life. Many people do just that. As there are also many people who take the mainstream path after D, even the LBS, and find a new R in which they are happy. i.e. Even when they dont consciously address the issues for which they are responsible and lead to the end of the M.

Sometimes they do address the issues in a manner by outwardly behaving differently, which they can do without ever coming to grips with the underlying cause. Sometimes they choose a partner which is better suited or at least better suited to conforming with their personality issues. Sometimes they are just lucky.

I'm not saying I want to be one of them, and I'm not saying that I even can be. The prevailing attitude of THOSE people seems to be that it was the S's fault and subsequent loss. Essentailly the were RIGHT. I do envy these people though. They seem to move on much easier than what I am.

I'm sure I have hit the bottom. And I have affected changes in my Rs with others already. I have sub-consciously done 180s all over the place, and I am GALing. I am not "changed" but I am changing. Being changed will I dont think ever be achieved and finished - all i can hope for is maintaining focus and keep changing. With this in mind, I would love for my W to be part of this. For the supportive environment for me, but most of all for my children. D4 is stressed out and no 4 year old should be in this position. i'm going to look into child psychologists ASAP.

[Zues126]

Hey Py,

Just posted something on Parker's thread I'd like you to check out as well. Make me think about the difference between changing behavior vs changing outlook, and seemed relevant to your last paragraph. Also I think we're all wired kinda similarly so it might be applicable.

Beyond that, I can tell you I've had these same thoughts. So many people just rebound, medicate, etc. Why are we doing all of this? I've got a few answers.

1. It will increase our chances of reconciliation or a better M in the future.

2. You will live knowing you've done the best job you can to be the best man you can be.

3. (often overlooked) Just because other people rebound, medicate, and end up married...doesn't mean they achieve serenity. NO ONE KNOWS whether an M is happy or not except for the people in it. Even if they tell you they're happy, that's not a sign. Remember how many WAS's insist they love their partner and were happy a week before they BD? That's because no one is more convincing then someone trying to convince themselves.

I've got a hell of a lot on my mind and my posts are already too long...I'm still organizing my thoughts...but it has to do with my discovery of how deep my expectations that a M was supposed to make me happy ran. But some things have come together that have really shown me this experience has been NECESSARY for ME to have a shot at a happy future. I'll keep marinating this and will hopefully be able to express is soon. Just know the work is worth it. And in some ways I'm JUST NOW starting some of the real work. After 10 months of daily reflection (which followed a life of introspection).

Oh, there's one more reason I left out to do the work...to keep love and commitment alive. Sometimes I get discouraged by how superficial marriages are that so many people walk away. Like are love, bonds, family, and commitment so disposable they can't withstand a few bad years or character flaws?

But then I say...what if I DO work through this and save my M? Then maybe love, bonds, family, and commitment are not only not disposable, they may actually be strong enough to last through abuse, separation, adultery, alcoholism, porn addiction, divorce, suicide attempts, and the tremendous pain caused on both sides. THAT would be a pretty cool love to have.

It's being tested. I can't control WAW's half. But I'd like to live in a world where that type of love and commitment exists. So I guess I'll do my part and feel good about it.

[MrBond]

" it is entirely possible that she moves on from here without changing anything about herself and lives a full and happy life."

Why do you think she needs to "change" her life? She already has, and in her eyes, for the better.

[Pyrite]

Very uplifting - Thanks Zeus - making the world a better place, (fixing) one (f***ed up) LBS at a time.

I have held on to that romantic image since soon after BD. Specifically as I have said before I want to look back on this in 20 years time as the period which gave us the best M.

So many superficially "defined" Ms abound. Some of my closest friends are in them. My W and I used to wonder/laugh at them. Now look who's laughing. I Will check out Parker's thread.

1. and 2. - definitely. 3.- is beyond my scope, in all interpretations. I think we could have the above - but as MrBond would/should chastise me "It is not about what YOU think". Which is correct. SO maybe this is what I am saying, 3. is not a legitimate reason. 3. is about HER. and should be irrelevant to self-focussed DBing, BUT it is almost at the core in so far as the "SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE" enticement on the home page. Although this is not so straightforward a call. My point to NoleGirl was that this becomes incredibly blurred when there are kids involved as well, for whom D'ed parents is a life long issue they are subjected to by the two people who I believe should never stop trying to make it work.

Mediation session soon - I am getting nervous. How much am I going to yield for the sake of my girls and/or me wanting custody of my girls? I am in a very different place than I was in the last session. Then I was the one who caved BUT I fiercely objected. Now I am no longer interested in fighting or punishing her. I just want to stay away from a disinterested 3rd party making an arbitrary decision (which 85% of the time is in favour of the Mother [factual statistic from family court]). Following which I will likely cave anyway to regain some ground in an external agreement with the STBX.

It seems to be a very common wiring. Mine is also convoluted with other issues (which no doubt it is in everyone case) which I need to think about more before posting.

[Pyrite]

this is what i said? Do you acknowledge that the other person is not perfect? As the LBS I am left with knowing everything that i did. As WAS with a new R she can ignore anything that she MIGHT have done. AND

" it is entirely possible that she moves on from here without changing anything about herself and lives a full and happy life."

Her new partner might not have a problem with xxxx for example. xxxx might disappear with this new partner. So this is what i said. I dont think she needs to change her life at all. She has. she thinks it is for the better. And this is likely the case. If she were my daughter for example I would encourage her to acknowledge the things she may have done so she may grow and not repeat. do you perceive there is still a problem? i am not saying what you are implying. i dont want to control her anymore. i recognise that I was and i dont want that.

[Pyrite]

I had my 2nd custody mediation session today. Since Sep. I have been lucky enough to enjoy 50/50 custody of the kids. So far my W has made no suggestion that she is about to challenge this. Nevertheless I have been anxious about it, waiting for the other shoe to drop. An added complication is that her NEW life somewhat requires relocating to the other side of the city. I have been searching for options that might satisfy her so that I keep my 50% custody. Today she was finally agreeable to at least discuss my suggestions. So this could end up working out quite well for me. Well the best I can hope for in this miserable situation. I am still hesitant to consider this a done deal, but I will enjoy it while it lasts. But that isn't the only reason I have had a great afternoon.

I initiated mediation not long after Sep. as W was unwilling discuss anything real, and custody was the most important thing for me to resolve. D4 is due to start school next year so we need to resolve relocation fairly urgently. Being so raw I advised the mediator that I would prefer separated mediation. I was considering revoking this at this session in the interests of expediting negotiation. However, I decided against requesting this as I could not only damage my DB/LRT/dark stance, but hurt my custody position as well. Anyway, SHE requested this as our face-face encounter last week was amicable enough. I could hardly refuse, and honestly I was glad because I feel that I have come far enough that I could deal with it.

Well, thanks to everyone here who deserve the credit for giving me this much. Especially Zeus, Cadet and my mortal enemy MrBond. I walked out of their feeling great. There were a few tense moments, with the mediator stepping in to stop the conversation, but generally it all went really well. From the outset the mediator surprised me by telling my W that whilst you can't understand why the two of you can't be friends already, you have to accept that this is emotionally difficult for your H as the rejected spouse. Wow - this summed up half of my animosity towards my W. I am angry that she ended the marriage and this is sometimes hard to contain, especially when baited. And here, the mediator expressed everything for me in one introductory statement, meaning for me that I didn't need to get angry and try to make this point. I felt a weight lift from my shoulders, I dint feel the anxiety that I was going to "lose it" to express this.

The funny thing is that W was more stressed and argumentative than me. On several occasions I got the opportunity to diffuse the situation by acknowledging that she was right, or had a good point and I wouldn't do that anymore, or promised to better listen to her comments, questions and be more patient. There were several things that I suggested I was willing to do to support the situation. I even made several jokes, made her and the mediator laugh and made light entertaiing conversation with W while mediator was busy writing. In general W was noticeably taken aback by how cooperative and well I was dealing with this. She was expecting to have a fight on her hands, and I was actually pleasant and helpful. I even had the opportunity to suggest that I'm sorry I was like that a month ago, I'm not interested in proceeding that way now. At the same time though I never really had to say that I had moved on. Not that I strictly have, but the impression I gave was that I have.

And the best part for me was that afterwards I felt like my performance in the afternoon actually gave me the confidence to really move on and consider this future we had been planning without fear. Even excitement. I forget who said it, maybe Toots, but "being open to reconciliation is not the same as waiting". I am appreciating this more and more.

Now - the question for you guys. I would like to be helpful and suggest how she should proceed so she doesn't have to take time off needlessly and even options I could be flexible to accept. Apart from sincerely wanting to help her, wanting my M back, and circumventing several layers of toing and froing, we can cut to the chase faster and my custody sitch is preserved. But is this sucky, too much contact?