Vanilla- I think partially he was embarrassed and uncomfortable to spend that much money on himself. At the time I earned more than twice as much as he did and we had just purchased a home exclusively using money from my stock options as a down payment. When we met he was just coming off a period in his life where he had gone back to school - so while he was employed - he was just starting off again - while I was pretty far down the career path.
I think this was another slow poisoner of our marriage. He always felt a bit like the junior partner although I certainly didn't see him that way. We actually did have a real, meaningful conversation about it - where I pointed out how unlikely it was that I would continue to out earn him in perpetuity. (Being someone who loves statistics-I pointed out to him that as a woman, I would end up earning less than him over time for a variety of factors). He did seem to take some comfort from that.
He was always a little erratic in his logic on this subject though. Until he became a cop - he jumped around from job to job although he was always employed. He didn't want to get married until he had a solid job with a future. He got it and celebrated the first day by saying "We can get married now!" and then quit it two months later because he hated it (we still got married). Then, once he got into law enforcement, which he has a real passion for, he repeatedly turned down promotions because he didn't want to deal with managing people and all that paperwork.
In the meantime, I let my career stall and started taking on positions with fewer responsibilities primarily because I didn't want to be working 60 hours a week with small children. However - in full honesty, I did view it as an additional benefit that I wouldn't earn so much more than him. It was the right decision for me because of the kids - but its pretty easy to second guess right now when a higher salary would be pretty helpful, to put it mildly. But I have no doubt I'll get back up there again.
The irony in all of this - is that about 2 months into the separation - he completed his probationary period in his new job and a bunch of raises kicked in- so for the first time he makes close to the amount that I do. If he continues on - he will be making an excellent salary in a few years.
You're a smart chick, and more intuitive than the average bear. You're taking this kind of introspection in a way that I think will help you in the future.
You realize that you're not responsible for your H's inferiority complex? Nor are you required to make yourself look less successful so that he feels better about his own path?
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I think this was another slow poisoner of our marriage. He always felt a bit like the junior partner although I certainly didn't see him that way.
I don't think that this was your job to take on. It was up to *him* to take more of an active partnership role in your M. It was up to *him* to let you know that he felt less than. Had he done that, I'm sure you would have listened and attempted to restructure things so that he could get what he needed.
It's a classic example of a P/A person. They don't speak up for themselves. They don't share feelings. They aren't authentic in their communications. And it isn't your fault that he didn't tell you. Sure, we could have sensed there was a problem and offered a solution. But that's looking in the rear view mirror and is about as helpful as waving a stick we believe is a magic wand.
If he--or anyone else, for that matter--feels "less than", it's *their* responsibility to tackle the issue. They can ask for support, but they need to learn to do this solo. And if it's us that feels inferior, we have to ask ourselves why we feel that way. Is it because someone else belittles us? Is it because we have low expectations of ourselves in the achievement department? Is it conditioning from our family of origin? Or is it our crappy belief system that feeds our negative self image?
You're a pretty enlightened person. I doubt sincerely that you'll choose someone like your H down the road. I have some red flags that become apparent right off the bat when I meet someone. The biggest? If I share some difficulties and they try to fix me or the situation. I will tell the guy, "Look, I just need support. I'm not broken, and I don't want you to fix me or my troubles. Does that make sense?" If they back off, it's fine. But more often than not, they just can't resist. I know it's a thing for our men to want to see us happy and to offer assistance. But when we communicate what we want from them, I think it's fair to expect results. I broke up with someone for continually trying to fix me. I hate it.
That becomes my big flag because they aren't seeing my communication as authentic enough to change their own. I won't put up with that any more. I'd have put up with my XH if he had stayed married to me. I'd have seen that as a work in process. But I won't do it with someone new. It's a deal breaker.
You'll find your own red flags. And somehow, I know you'll honor yourself first.
You're doing a great job, raliced.
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
You realize that you're not responsible for your H's inferiority complex? Nor are you required to make yourself look less successful so that he feels better about his own path?
I don't think that this was your job to take on. It was up to *him* to take more of an active partnership role in your M. It was up to *him* to let you know that he felt less than. Had he done that, I'm sure you would have listened and attempted to restructure things so that he could get what he needed.
I know, I know. I've always known it logically and I see it clearly in the marriage now, but when I was right in the middle of it - it was not as obvious. Something to be aware of for the future.
I'm capable of spotting this and handling it better. You know - the guy I dated right before him was a senior manager in the company I worked at, and at first I was just an entry level supervisor. Within a year - I was at his level, and he just really had a hard time with it and started saying things like "You know - work is just not easy for me, the way it is for you". I ended that one, for that reason. I still felt kind of guilty though, when he was fired two months later and they assigned his department to me as an appendage of my own.
Anyway- I think I let my version of being a supportive wife muddy the waters on this one.
Something else I have to consider - both of my highly educated and accomplished sisters, married men who would traditionally be considered "go-getters" (one BIL is a general in the army, and the other holds a high position in the local healthcare industry) and they had the opportunity and chose to be SAHMs. Why did I choose such a different route and such a different partner? Something for me to chew on.
Thank you for all time and thought you put in on my situation, Betsey. It really helps focus and clarify my thoughts and is much appreciated! Hope this week is a little sunnier for you.
Yep, it's sunnier this week. Proof? I just got a call from David's Bridal (I bought an evening gown for an event last fall), and was a little surprised to hear that I won a pampering package for the bride to be! I told the gal I'd like to defer to a real bride to be, because "been there, done that". She laughed.
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Something else I have to consider - both of my highly educated and accomplished sisters, married men who would traditionally be considered "go-getters" (one BIL is a general in the army, and the other holds a high position in the local healthcare industry) and they had the opportunity and chose to be SAHMs. Why did I choose such a different route and such a different partner? Something for me to chew on.
This is undoubtedly a very personal path, and everyone has their own opinions on this one. I think that we are largely influenced by our own experiences in one way or another, as well as the messages (outright or subliminal) of our own mothers. I was the product of a homemaker and a cop. My mom abandoned her career when she had my younger sister. She did so willingly, but not without a steep cost. We were poor as church mice, my dad worked 3 jobs and they did the best they could. I appreciate their sacrifices. My sister and I were both extremely influenced by her lack of means. My dad was never a control freak about money; it helped that she was frugal and made good choices.
My sister is extremely accomplished, also at a high price. She's at least happily married and married later in life, and her H has kids and grandkids. She's a great aunt to my girls, and my D21 has been like a surrogate to her (and her H). Oddly enough, her H had been married to women before her who put him down and who discouraged him getting a college degree. He accomplished that after he was married to my sister. She seeks her value by what she is paid. So she goes after and gets jobs that suck the life from her soul, and the joy from her heart. It's not her H. It's her.
I've kind of viewed a job as a necessity. I've always been resourceful, am educated and am gainfully employed. I've never wanted to rule the world or to take the world by storm. I know I'd like to be doing something else, but until I can find a buyer for my business (which is not on my radar right now), I'll have to wait a bit for the right conditions. It's not going to be a fire sale, you know? But I am the most content when I'm working on issues that are important to me. Because I have an intellectually disabled child, that's where I'd like to go. I have the perfect job in mind, and I'll find someone to pay me to do it when I'm ready to jump.
With the exception of when I left CA to move to CO, I've been employed since I was 15. Mr. Wonderful really wanted me to be a SAHM. But he understood (maybe not? ) that I wouldn't be happy staying at home. I'm glad I didn't, knowing now that we'd divorce and having a job would have been an issue anyway. With my family of origin dynamics, I understood that money=power. I was absolutely certain that I'd never be at the mercy of another person who was able to bring more $$ to the table. What really nailed that for me? When I moved here as a newlywed and was unemployed, we moved into a new house and I learned my way around Denver by driving around, forcing myself to get lost, and shopping along the way. Mind you, I'm not a big shopper. But he'd get home after work and say, "So how did you spend my money today?" It was my fault for not verbalizing that I was bothered/hurt by him saying that, but it just further made me feel the pull of power.
My late brother also married a gal who is industrious and who just does what she needs to do to bring an income to the table. She works hard at work and home, and I know he appreciated her talents for detail work. She's a good business person and has a good head on her shoulders. She grew up with a SAHM as well, and I'm pretty sure she feels the same pull as my sister and I do.
I'm interested in your musings there. FWIW, I always knew I would have never been able to be a military wife. I'm just too much... self centered? opinionated? driven? ... to give up a career. If I were a Walmart greeter or had the aspirations to work in retail, I'm sure I'd have felt differently. But I knew myself well enough that I couldn't settle for being underemployed or unemployed. That is, not getting paid for my work. Don't get me wrong, I think being a SAHM is TOUGH. I did it for 6 months when my D18 was a baby to deal with all her medical issues. And I did a really crappy job. I was unhappy and a little lost. My hat is off to those who do make that choice and who are good at it.
Anyway, I'm interested in your musings. I don't care if my guy doesn't have a college degree. He just has to be able to converse intelligently on topics, use proper grammar most of the time, and to be able to be his own man. I think that's fair.
One funny thing if you believe this sort of thing (I do). My sister and I have done past life regressions, and our previous lives were as different as they are now - in our most recent lives, she was a man in the military (she was in the Navy for 10 years in this lifetime), and I was an abandoned seamstress whose H left her without a means to support herself and their son. Go figure?
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
My sister has a few mediums in her rolodex that do this. I have a few friends from this BB who also have a few names. You can go to a spiritual/metaphysical store and inquire as well. You know, the kind that sell amulets, books, incense, etc. I just googled in your city, and you've got one.
My last one was last year, albeit brief. I attended a "I Can Do It" workshop weekend here, and Brian Weiss led us on a 5-10 minute hypnosis session. It was pretty helpful. In fact, every time I've done it, I've learned quite a bit about my present self.
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Well, I suspect this is a topic that I may brood on and come back to over time. My mother was a SAHM who went back to work intermittently from the time I was 8. I don’t remember there ever being a power dynamic related to money in the house. Mom actually made most of the decisions although I felt her and Dad consulted about major things. She went through sort of a midlife waffle about the time she went to work. Partially I think they were worried they weren’t contributing enough to retirement and because they had their kids so spread out, she had already been a SAHM for almost 20 years at that point and she was ready for something different.
And that is probably one of the primary differences between me and my siblings. My brother is 16 years older, my older sister is 14 years older and my other sister is 6 years older. Although we had the same parents – they grew up in a very different family and had different childhoods than I did. I always felt loved and cared for, but at that point, I think they were kind of over the parenting thing. When my brothers and sisters were young, there was lots of family time, camping trips, and hanging around with cousins their age (I was also the youngest grandchild in both sets of families by a mile). When I was born we moved away from the extended family for my Dad’s work and they were just at a different phase of life. I was a voracious reader from the age of three and I just ended up being left to my own devices a lot. And my parents, particularly my mother related to me in a different way somehow. I guess I was always kind of an old soul and she talked to me about her worries and concerns in a more adult way than she did with my siblings. Also, they went to public schools while I went to a small private Lutheran school (the public schools wouldn’t admit me to kindergarten early and Mom thought I was more than ready to go). I was never picked on or bullied and I always had friends, but I was also a bit isolated because of that reading habit and was called the “Walking Encyclopedia”. I guess this all sort of added up to my expecting and being comfortable with charting my own course. I think my brother and sisters somehow had clearer expectations set for them.
My oldest sister went to West Point, where she met BIL. He stayed in, she left after her 5 year commitment, got a masters in history and then became a SAHM. He is a hyper overachiever – graduated first in his class, Rhodes Scholar, Harvard Law graduate and is now a general. Their marriage has been a highly successful one and I have no reason to believe she hasn’t been happy. I love him to death – but I’ve always looked at him and known I couldn’t be married to someone like that. He is literally exhausting at times – one of those people who excels with only 3 or 4 hours of sleep at night and his waking hours are all productive. He would be the first to tell you that they are a team and he could not have accomplished all of this without my sister and their kids.
My other sister has a PhD in Microbiology and chose to become a SAHM after the birth of her second child. She has seemed to turn her passion and focus to her children’s lives and making a beautiful home. She’s not completely a helicopter parent, but she’s in the zone. Her husband is a responsible, diligent man who has gotten to where he is at by hard work and very long hours.
For me, I need the intellectual engagement of work. I am very, very good at coming into a disastrous situation, and getting it completely untangled and running effectively. When things start running smoothly and merely need to be maintained, I get antsy and move on. I was and am ok working while my kids are young – oddly I would have much preferred to not work when they are teenagers, which doesn't really seem like a possibility any more.
I don’t think I have any issues with the power=money thing, although I freely admit I've enjoyed having my own means. I was ok with STBX not earning a lot (the small town police force he started working for paid a pittance), but in full honesty it did hurt a bit when he would turn down opportunities and was pretty lackadaisical about looking for another agency that paid better. And – I have to be fair- I never stated this to him, because he was so clearly happy in that particular job and it made me feel like I was being materialistic- after all we had a roof over our head and food on the table. I guess somehow, I’ve never thought someone should have to help “make a better life” for me – so I never expected it or looked for it. Sometimes it seems like it would be pretty nice in a marriage.
Oh - and about the Past Life Regression- I can honestly say I've never given it much thought. While naturally someone with a strong skeptical streak, I have always believed that there are things in this world that we cannot understand or explain.
) that I wouldn't be happy staying at home. I'm glad I didn't, knowing now that we'd divorce and having a job would have been an issue anyway. With my family of origin dynamics, I understood that money=power. I was absolutely certain that I'd never be at the mercy of another person who was able to bring more $$ to the table. What really nailed that for me? When I moved here as a newlywed and was unemployed, we moved into a new house and I learned my way around Denver by driving around, forcing myself to get lost, and shopping along the way. Mind you, I'm not a big shopper. But he'd get home after work and say, "So how did you spend my money today?" It was my fault for not verbalizing that I was bothered/hurt by him saying that, but it just further made me feel the pull of power. 