Getting back to me

[mustardseed]

I was posting from my phone before so I didn't get to address your questions which I know is useful for helping me get past this.

Msd

It appears that it is the not knowing that is the problem. That it is the living in a position of hidden A, an insecure position. Is it or isn't it?
Not knowing is definitely part of what is making me crazy. The thing is that I don't think I will ever have an answer that satisfies me. I want to believe it is an EA or PA because then at least I will know I wasn't creating a villain to help me understand what has been going on. The friendship trumps our relationship--at least at this point in time and that is painful enough. Knowing it was an A at least makes me feel justified in my jealousy about the friendship. But I believe that my jealousy has put me in a bad position because they are able to use it to their advantage, whether it is an A or not.
How can you be sure?I don't think I ever will be. If it is just a friendship or EA I will never have adequate proof. If it was a PA, well, honestly a PA doesn't really cause the same amount of pain as the EA or friendship does. If it is a PA I know it will just crash and burn on its own. But the friendship or EA is the piece that has me feeling so betrayed. It is the friendship thrown in my face that keeps twisting the knife and is keeping me behaving badly. I need to stop letting it hurt. I need it to stop effecting me. Somehow if it was a PA I think I could move on a lot easier. I know that our sex life and physical attraction was never the issue. But the lack of friendship and intimacy was a vulnerable spot for us, and knowing he turned to someone else rather than trying to make it work with me is where the pain and betrayal lies.

It is the gas lighting and hidden nature?
Yes. When I read the definition of gaslighting, I think maybe we both do this to each other. He does it by withholding, not answering questions directly, double speak. very much like a politician. I think I might do it to, when I speaking emotionally. I don't really do it intentionally, but I just end up being all over the map and I end up contradicting myself or taking things back then bringing it up again. I end up being very confused and confusing. He seems a lot more deliberate with what he does. I keep trying to get answers but always end up more confused.

Who knows or thinks they know?
Only they know. If anyone else does, they won't tell. There is no one who will be able to give me the answers I need--except for them and they are playing games with me right now. He assures me he isn't. He just wants to be left alone. But I am pretty sure she is. D asked me yesterday of OWd could come over. I said yes. I noticed on D's phone that OWd was the one who invited herself over and told d to have H call her mom. This whole thing seems orchestrated to me. They live almost an hour away. It doesn't make sense to have weekend play dates and it has never happened before.

I am absolutely convinced that it is this denial by Msd. The insecurity of not wanting this to be true. That your H is saying selfishly that this scuzzy W is not an OW. In the meanwhile you are babysitting her daughter.I'm not so sure that I don't want it to be true because the friendship in and of itself hurts as much as any affair. I think that I want to know so that I feel justified in feeling the way I feel. I want confirmation that I am right, not that I am wrong. The only way I will be satisfied with being wrong is if it comes with tons of assurances the I am the only woman for him and he feels awful that this friendship made me feel this way. That isn't going to happen. And if it isn't going to happen then I would rather believe that this is an affair that will run its course, rather than a friend that gets to be involved in my family without me. This is pure clingyness on my part. I don't want to let go, but I have to.

Msd you are too good to your H. This friendship or EA or PA is wholly inappropriate and needs to stop.I feel the same way, but I have no control over that. Trying to control is the problem. I have to learn to let go of it. Stop making it my problem and let them run their course.

Msd you need peace from this, a space, a gap, this is not you being crazy, it is your sitch. There must be a way of confirming this to your own satisfaction. Msd as your DB friend I am convinced enough this is damaging to you. I am sure this is an R that you do not want to accept. An inappropriate R.I absolutely do not want to accept this R. But it is one of those things that I cannot control. The more I try the worse it gets. I don't think i will ever know the answer. Maybe once the D is final and I see how he moves on. But even then I will never know for sure.

This is untenable, you are asking yourself to live in this tension in order to maintain an illusion of hope. Your H selfishness with this inappropriate R is harmful to you as is your denial, the denial of harm. Living in denial and harm is amongst the worst damage you can do to yourself. Msd this is like living in an alternate universe, when you live with a gambler or a hidden alcoholic there is this illusion. So it is with a hidden A. I think I am living in denial. But I think the biggest denial I have right now is in believing there is a part of H that still cares about my well-being and feelings. Whether there is an A or not, H wants it hidden because it is causing me to behave badly and gives him leverage. He knows I want to know. Even if it isn't an A having me wonder gives him power.

Consider if this is a full on A what would you do? What evidence would satisfy you?I want to hear it from him. I think if it is a full on A and I get confirmation I will be able to let go and move on. It is the EA and friendship that makes it hard for me to let go. It is the knowledge that he is confiding in someone intimately who is very much involved in our children's lives separate from their relationship that brings out this mama bear, territorial instinct. That is what is making me behave in a way that is damaging to our relationship, to my self respect, and to our co-parenting relationship. If it was someone random, or even someone who knows our kids but doesn't have a relationship with them outside of him or us I don't think it would bother me so much. But it is these blurred lines of her being their teacher, us being mothers with Ds in the same class, her being his coworker, and their relationship that seems to have caused or was the result of their respective marital problems.

What will you do with the knowledge?
I think it will make me feel justified. I think it will allow me to just let go and move on. I know I need to do that anyway, but I am struggling because of all of the questions. I have to let go of having to know.

You will breathe, get support and DB. You will stop babysitting OW D, you will have hurt but you will have space to move on. I understand you wanting to maintain the status quo, and you use the word crazy.H, I, and OW made a deal that we will let the girls arrange their own play dates. They have agreed to that, and so now the plans are coming from them. It is a matter of us saying yes or no. If I am always the one to say no, then I am the getting in the middle of their friendship and I am the bad guy. I say yes. I wonder if I should stick around or leave. H will be in and out just like he was yesterday when she was over. I probably will be in and out to. It is supposed to be a beautiful day. Maybe I will take the dog to the dog park.

You use this word crazy, you cry it out over and over wanting to be heard because the pretend life you live is different from the reality. Google the word gas lighting and know what this is doing to your soul. This dissonance and failure to see reality. This wanting something different from the reality is normal, it is usual for LBS.

I hear you Msd, I would like you to face the reality, to cry with pain for loss, for I truly believe this will release you. Call this A from the roof tops, be real, know the love Msd has for herself. Find a safe person and go cry with anger for the reality. No longer be isolated in real life. Forget about saving face and save yourself from further harm.

Msd then the word crazy will be only a word again.

V

Thank you V. I have been crying to people. Too many people. I think that is part of why I am so ashamed. He says I am badmouthing him. I say I am trying to get answers and figure out what is going on. He isn't giving me anything and keeps telling me he doesn't have to. I get that he doesn't have to, but if he wants me to let go and move on then all he has to do is tell me what I need to know. It is a game. I have to be the first one to stop playing. I keep pushing button A and getting the same results. 180s need to be the way I go, but right now I don't even know what the 180 is since I feel like I have just been all over the map with how I handled things. I am spinning and getting no where. I need to take a step and move past this spot but I can't tell which way to step.

This morning I asked if OW got in touch with him about her d coming over because I was going to send a text to her and I wanted to be on the same page. He couldn't even give a straight answer for that. All he said is, "the girls arranged this, you can text her to find out the time." So I pushed, asked if she texted him at all about this. He just kept saying, "I know nothing, find out the time." Anyway, I don't know why it was so important for me to know if she contacted him about it. It doesn't give me any information except that she continues to bypass me with all of these plans. Finally he told me that yes she did mention that her d wanted to come over, but he doesn't want to be involved. I texted her to get the time. She hasn't responded, but I guess it is still early for a weekend. He hasn't mentioned if she got in touch with him since my text, and I know that he won't tell me. That is why I have to stop caring. I have to let go. I am trying to get control where I have none.

It has been a while since I have gone to an alanon meeting. Maybe it is time to get back there. My IC isn't helping me to let go.