What if she refuses my request to stop calling/texting in the house?
When she calls/texts now, it's been a "don't ask, don't tell" thing. It's the white elephant I the room that we don't talk about.
ALL affairs are destructive -- financially, emotionally, spiritually, sometimes even to your physical health. All of 'em.
But among THE most destructive, in my opinion, is when a woman is cheating, her husband knows, and she knows that you know . . . and yet you ignore it.
It's emasculating for you, and for it absolutely KILLS attraction (and therefore, respect, and therefore . . . love, since women tie their feelings of love very closely to their feelings of respect for a man).
It's one thing when the betrayed spouse doesn't know, and then some other situations they know but they don't let on that they know (sometimes out of fear, but sometimes also for tactical reasons). But when you DO know? And she KNOWS that you know????
In an earlier post I said that I was "ignoring" the A. Although it does not say that in DR, that was my interpretation of what I should do. Since my wife refuses to end the A, I thought any action of mine regarding the A would be seen as pressuring/pursuing and ultimately move her closer to the OM. I thought I was supposed to back away and focus on me, not the affair. I guess I interpreted that wrong.
Kinda-sorta. You're not supposed to *focus* on it, but you SHOULD address it.
Unfortunately, DR says very little in about Infidelity (only one chapter), and most of that is geared toward a situation where the wayward spouse has already ended their affair and is even remorseful about it. Very few pages are written about what to do in the face of a hard-core, unrepentant affair (with the notable exception of the Last Resort Technique and the After-the-Last-Resort Technique, which is where you should start).
The reason I said "kinda-sorta" is that you should not FOCUS on it, but you DO need to address it. Immediately, with a "Make no mistake: I will not live in an open marriage" statement, and then by certain boundaries you need to lay out for your own protection. But once you do that, yes the focus should then turn to YOU -- your GAL stuff, your own self-improvements and introspection about your role in the demise of the marriage, etc. You circle back and re-enforce boundaries where necessary, and then you keep moving on with your own stuff.
It's a misconception and even a MYTH that DB and DR says to "totally ignore" the affair.
What if she refuses my request to stop calling/texting in the house?
When she calls/texts now, it's been a "don't ask, don't tell" thing. It's the white elephant I the room that we don't talk about.
ALL affairs are destructive -- financially, emotionally, spiritually, sometimes even to your physical health. All of 'em.
But among THE most destructive, in my opinion, is when a woman is cheating, her husband knows, and she knows that you know . . . and yet you ignore it.
It's emasculating for you, and for it absolutely KILLS attraction for her (and therefore, respect, and therefore . . . love, since women tie their feelings of love very closely to their feelings of respect for a man).
It's one thing when the betrayed spouse doesn't know, and then some other situations they know but they don't let on that they know (sometimes out of fear, but sometimes also for tactical reasons). But when you DO know? And she KNOWS that you know?? And yet you IGNORE it????
You're right, I am afraid. Mostly, I'm afraid of the impact this will have on my D6 and D5. They are such happy, loving, intelligent, little girls. We have always given them a wonderful home and kept our issues hidden from them.
Yes, instead of wondering how to react to your W's moves, focus on removing your fear. Where would you live if you separated? Go look at some options, see what it costs and what it would look like. Meet with a lawyer and understand your financial situation. Start separating your finances.
Fear largely results from the unknown. Figure out the reality behind your fears. If nothing else, the knowledge is comforting even though you may not like the answers. Don't just give it lip service, actually go out and look at some places you might rent. Walk through them, touch them, make it real. Understand that you have options and you are not just a passenger in her sidecar, doomed to ride where she drives you.
Regarding your girls, they will be fine. Your W has already harmed them by cheating on you. The damage is done and can no longer be prevented. SHE DID THIS, you cannot fix it.
When my XW first cheated my youngest was 5 going on 6, the same age as your youngest daughter and I could not bear to put her through a divorce, I just didn't feel like I could do it, and I too endeavored to hide everything from all three of my kids.
Despite the fact that both XW and I did a really good job of keeping things hidden and "acting as if" they still picked up on the tension, of course they did. Your daughters have too.
Having to tell them that XW would be moving out was one of the hardest days of my life leading up to that moment, but once it was done it was a tremendous relief. The kids cried for a few hours but by the afternoon they were running around the back yard throwing water balloons at each other and ready to move on with "how things are now". Kids are like that, they're resilient. They process the change and they carry on, faster than adults do.
Your kids cannot have the life back that they have had -- they can't. Your W's actions have removed that as a possibility. Seeing you stand up for yourself and continuing to love and support them is a great example to set.
Sometimes things don't work out the way you wanted but you can still have a wonderful life, despite the change. I'm sure your kids won't suffer for learning that lesson.
How are my kids doing now? Honestly they are doing GREAT! Do they like going back and forth between houses? No. Do they like that their family traditions, like vacations together and restaurant meals as a family have been disrupted? No. But they do feel loved by both of us, they know that we are there for them, they have each other, and that is more than enough. Believe me it is.
You can own and address and pick up the pieces from your own shortcomings and bad decisions. You can't fix the mess your wife has wrought. Your best path forward is to get away from her right now. Drop the rope. That is your only chance of having her come back around. Make it worse in order to make it better, it's the shortest path.
The path of half-measures leads to prolonged limbo and agony.
Acc
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Fear largely results from the unknown. Figure out the reality behind your fears. If nothing else, the knowledge is comforting even though you may not like the answers. Don't just give it lip service, actually go out and look at some places you might rent. Walk through them, touch them, make it real. Understand that you have options and you are not just a passenger in her sidecar, doomed to ride where she drives you.
I feel your pain and confusion in SO many ways. I'm so thankful you landed here.
My H had two PAs, eight years apart. The second one was a result of, as you said in your first post, not repairing things correctly after the first time. The difference in your situation and mine is that I was here during the first PA, handling things largely the same way you've been handling them with your W (ignoring the A and trying to be my H's BFF). He came back (too early/easily). And then cheated again eight years later. When I found myself back here early last year, I was mad as hell, and there was NO way I could buy into the notion that MWD - an expert in saving marriages - could be advocating being my H's BFF while he was actively cheating on me. Surely, I thought, she wouldn't tell me to ignore an A, because that would be like asking me to ignore my mental AND physical health. And, frankly, ignoring an A - as Starsky has, as always, so eloquently pointed out - has the potential to kill your M even more than the A itself has. I came back in early 2014, ready to protect myself and unsure of whether I wanted my M to work. (And I agree with Starsky's assessment of MWD's DR and what it offers - and doesn't - about As.)
I received the same amazing advice you're getting - plus a little more, which I'll try to briefly summarize below - and my H and I have been piecing our M back together for a year now.
Affairs operate under a veil of secrecy. They're risky and fun and "carefree." The AP is exhilarating and sexy. He doesn't represent responsibilities. The A isn't burdened by issues with kids, a home, finances, work, etc. The OM is a breath of fresh air - a drug (seriously - research it) - while you are a drag, representing everything heavy in a relationship.
Once an A is discovered and exposed, the APs start to see how the other one acts under pressure. But that's only IF they feel under pressure. Let me provide a personal example: Once I discovered my H's A and confronted him about it, he continued texting OW. In fact, I found a text exchange four days after BD - at a time when H had told me he was "weighing his options but staying in the M for now" - where he told OW: "Text me. Train is with me, not that THAT matters. Lol." At that time, just four days after discovering the A, everything was so new, and I was trying to take some time to sort out my strategy. (I wasn't back on the boards yet.) I had told H the very night of BD that I wouldn't live in an open M and would work on fixing "my side of the street" if and only IF he ceased communication with OW. But I immediately jumped into that ignoring/"gay best friend" mode that I had perfected in 2006. IOW, my H didn't feel under pressure to stop the A. In fact, I emboldened him - by ignoring it and placating him - to unrepentantly continue it. And LAUGH about my ignorance with OW!!! (Still burns me up!)
Still suspicious that my H was continuing to text OW - he had told me the A was "text-only" - the very day he sent that text ^^^ to OW (along with pictures of our children ), I waited until he was asleep and went through his phone. That's when I saw just how deep the A was. And all the ignoring/"gay BFF" stuff went right out the window. To make a long story short, I suspended service to his phone right then and there and smashed the physical phone with a meat tenderizer right in front of his face.
That was the (very dramatic and knee-jerk, I admit) beginning of my boundaries. And THAT is when H and OW started feeling stress and pressure for the first time. And it's when OW started showing her true colors, out in broad daylight and without the veil of secrecy the A provided. It was the beginning of the end of the A.
In addition to protecting YOU (the main point of boundaries), they also effectively remove you from a sick love triangle. And that leaves the two "in love" APs to meet each other's needs. People who enter into extramarital As are clearly behaving pretty selfishly. So think of a relationship of two people who are only out for themselves. Do you see where THAT is going? Sure, they swear they're in the relationship for one another ... they've FINALLY met their "soul-mate" who cares SO much about them. But if OM cared so much about your W, why would he hurt her children by destroying her family in this particular way?
I'm long-winded. But my point is: yes. Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries. Turn that cell off - yesterday. Just like my H, she will likely get another one in a flash. But don't allow her to use family money to buy it or pay for it. Starsky is great at providing pointers on how to financially protect your family from the A. Drop any fear, and act from a place of STRENGTH. *That* is attractive to women.
While you're setting boundaries to protect you - and your heart - and your family, figure out your shortcomings as a man and a H. And start working to fix them. This is for YOU so that, once out of this hell-on-earth, you will be irresistible to a future partner (hopefully your W).
Don't let her cries of "you're trying to control me!!!" bother you. That's script. You can bet it's coming. And it's all a manipulation tactic to get you to back off. Don't back off. Let her spew. You just say: "I'm sorry you feel that way. Everything I'm doing is to protect my marriage and my family." She may not show it, but deep down, this is where/when the seeds of respect start to grow.
Meanwhile, OM is going to start diminishing in her eyes. And he will likely get tired of your W's freak-out sessions, spewing about you trying to "control" her.
I'm over-simplifying here, and it likely sounds like I'm trivializing the situation or being inconsiderate of your feelings, but as someone who's been there, I'm going to say it anyway: It's a beautiful disaster.
I know I rambled a lot. I hope some of it is helpful. I'll look forward to hearing how (quickly) things progress as you start to stand up for yourself some.
Again, I'm happy you landed here.
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
Train, that is just pure GOLD. Thank you so much for sharing such an intensely personal story, and for being here to "pay it forward" to so many people. Yours would be a success story even if you DIDN'T save your marriage (which of course you did, and you are), as it's a powerful story of personal strength and integrity.
Rubi, I can only pray that you have the courage to follow the advice. Many who land here are not yet ready, but once they do, things move pretty quickly (for bad and then for good, usually). Let us know how we can best help you.
Thank you, Starsky. That means so much, especially coming from the person whose "paying it forward" helped save my family ... and certainly my sanity ... last year.
I have stepped back from many of my more long-winded posts here lately, mainly because my computer keyboard is still screwed, and I still hate typing from my phone ... but mainly because time and energy is precious, and I haven't sensed in a while that many of the new arrivals here have been ready or willing to hit the ground running from a place of strength and no-fear.
I immediately got a different impression from you, Rubi, so much so that I now have thumb cramps from typing a novella from my phone! Lol. Seriously, though, you have an army behind you here, and you have it in you to turn this ship around. And fast (relatively speaking, anyway). I really believe that.
Thanks again, Starsky, my brotha from a different motha.
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
Thank you for believing in me. Your story/advice is incredibly encouraging.
This afternoon, I suspended my W cellphone service. I came home early from work and calmly told her what I decided to do and why (boundaries). She became very angry, accusing me of being controlling, manipulative, etc. She said she hates me and wishes we never married. I remained calm throughout. She Said that it was "our" money and stated that I couldn't do what I did. My reply... "It's family money to be used for our family needs, not for you to blatantly disrespect all of us by having an affair".
I'll post more about our conversation a little later. She talked about leaving, taking the kids, not having any money of her own, etc.
), I waited until he was asleep and went through his phone. That's when I saw just how deep the A was. And all the ignoring/"gay BFF" stuff went right out the window. To make a long story short, I suspended service to his phone right then and there and smashed the physical phone with a meat tenderizer right in front of his face. 
