Pyrite: Eye of the storm?

[Zues126]

Py- Remember in Godfather at the end when Michael says to Kay, "OK...this one time you can ask me about my business..."?

This one time I will talk about your W's behavior. Right now the focus is on your behavior. The ONLY reason I am mentioning your W's behavior is to discuss how you can manage YOUR reactions.

One reaction is to feel vindicated. You can judge her behavior, her character, point out how unreasonable she is, how crazy she can act at times. You can tell stories about her to your friends and get their sympathy and support. Heck, you can do things that you know will trigger her more just to provoke her, then play the role of the victim.

OR- you can understand that she too is going through a hard time and feel some compassion. You can believe none of what you hear and half of what you see. She may be conflicted at times, but she has one fear overpowering everything- she is terrified that she will change her mind, or not be strong enough to leave you, and that she will end back up in the nightmare she felt she's been living for the last few years that nearly destroyed her. Now, Mr. Bond is right that you are exaggerating her behavior by talking about how it makes you FEEL vs. what she is ACTUALLY saying...but even if she is being very cold right now, that is her armor to protect her from the feelings of guilt, regret, and love still inside her. She doesn't feel safe with those feelings because they are a threat, so every time she feels those she brings back out the script of what you have done to hurt her to "restrengthen" her resolve. Listen to the song "I will survive" and you'll get an idea of the theme song that is running through her head.

OK- enough, enough, enough about her. Back to you, and let's stay there. What does this mean for you?

It means YOU need to spend some time reflecting on how your behavior hurt her. You did very well with the list above. There is much you can do with that. This is VERY hard to do. I've gotten to the point that I can state some of my destructive behavior, but it's STILL really hard for me to truly understand how my W felt. It's a childish reaction to avoiding guilt, it's like my mind just denies it or gets defensive about how "I didn't mean to, here's how I felt, here's all I was trying to do". It's like the reality that I spiritually wounded the person God entrusted me to love and cherish is too much for me to handle. So I get it's not easy. But it's really important that you start to understand the depth of the pain she's suffering because that will make you more patient and compassionate.

You need to act very consistently with character to avoid provoking her further. CONSISTENCY CONSISTENCY CONSISTENCY. You know how companies have a mission statement? The idea is that that mission statement is the compass that guides all they do, right? Well, you too need a mission statement. This is what the 180s are about. Whatever happens with your M, what types of behavior do you want to change FOR YOU? What are the core differences?

For example, if you have decided to try to be less judgmental/more compassionate, and less controlling (which will be two CRITICAL bullets under your overall mission statement)...then you can work through your emotions before responding, and use this to guide your response.

Specifically- you get a message from her. You find yourself outraged and wanting to react negatively. So you sit with it for a bit. Scream into a pillow. Vent here. Whatever. Then, after you've calmed down, you go through a period where you remind yourself of why she's acting this way, your role in getting to this point. Then you revisit your mission statement and consider how you can respond that is consistent with your CORE BELIEFS. Now's a good time to pray for strength to allow yourself to be free of your negative emotions and to allow your CORE BELIEFS to come through. You draft a response. Then you sit on it, reread it, and look for ANY possible edge to the email. Kind of like how before leaving your kid in a room you glance around to make sure nothing is breakable or dangerous, you reread and make sure there's nothing nasty, controlling, or critical. AND that you're not acting over the top self righteous as implied criticism. You want the only emotions to come through to be strength, compassion, whatever your CORE BELIEFS are.

To this point I would recommend going email only for a while if possible. This will be a lot of work for every communication for a while. I don't believe you have the tools to do all of this live on the phone. But if you do this one email at a time, you will start to develop them. Eventually it won't be an act. But you don't get a lot of slack. She's looking with a MICROSCOPE for any sign that everything you're doing is an act to try to control her in some way. The moment she sees any sign of your old mission statement (which is your current mission statement until you CHANGE it, which is why what you're doing here is SO IMPORTANT) she will ignore everything else and focus on that. And your current mission statement was "For me to be happy I need you to act the way I expect, I will tell you when you're right or wrong, and will punish you when you're wrong by hurting your spirit, then telling you it's your own fault you're in pain because you did it WRONG, if you didn't keep messing up I wouldn't have to teach you these lessons". So that must be purged at all costs.

Finally, I'm not saying this means you give her everything she asks for, that you let her abuse you, or that you emasculate yourself. I'm all about being strong, confident, and assertive. If there's a point you have to stand up for then do so. Just do it from a good place in your heart, not from a provocative place. Don't take pleasure in the conflict, the control. I'm not being as clear, but if she makes a request that you CAN'T go along with (say she said she doesn't want you to see your daughter anymore- which we both know she's not doing so it's a safe example) you could respond "W, I understand you'd like as much distance from me as possible in your life, and I can understand why you'd feel that way. That said, I'm not prepared to let our daughter grow up without her father. I fully intend to be a big part of her life. I'm open to finding ways to allow her relationship with me to sustain while still honoring your desire to minimize contact between us at this time. Let me know if you have thoughts on how we could arrange that."

See, there's no judging, no reacting, no provoking, and no CONTROLLING. No ultimatums, no "these are my rights, I can get the courts to do this or that, here's how we need to do it", etc. Just empathy/boundary/validation/collaboration. Point is you CAN stand up for what you need WITHOUT letting the negative mission statement drive the ship.

So- looking back in 6 months...what CORE BELIEFS do you want to see radiate through in all of your consistent behavior? What is your mission statement? What are the negative traits that you will be looking to eliminate from your responses? I've done half of this for you...but do the work yourself in your own words.

I really believe in going email only right now so you can execute this. For my first 90 days I never responded to an email without meditating for 15 minutes, then praying to God for strength to allow my to respond with my best spiritual self. What's amazing is that after a while you are given strength you didn't know you had, which will protect YOUR feelings. I TOTALLY GET that long term you can't stifle feelings of rejection, criticism, etc. TRUST ME...those feelings will diminish if you follow this road, and it will be easier to be your best self, and less painful for you.

At the end of the day this is all about you, about making it easier on yourself. THIS WILL HAPPEN if you follow the path.

You can do this Py. One step at a time bud.

[Pyrite]

she didn't say that this time - but she has said it before.

thanks for your constructive criticism. I will try and apply this next time we talk.

you are right Mr Bond - i am angry that the situation is not just going my way, and I dont want to give you more ammunition - but her agenda is NOT in the children best interests at all.

She wants to sell the house to move on - yes - and that is understandable. But she wants to move an hour+ away from all of our friends, family, the kids kinda and creche - for one reason. Her new job. Misguided but in her position TM understandable.

So far all the compromising in so far as anything, including this issue, has been on my side. you are right though that I should just listen and try to compromise based on that, NOT pull back immediately to what i want. And you are being unfair about my controlling personality - it is true to a degree - but as I have said before there have been many issues where I was just shut down. I had NO say in raising my babies. We would even watch baby sleeping videos together and I would ask to try that. Absolutely no. In all circles, family, friends, etc - everyone has commented that no one does things this way. Anyway, I imagine that it is true that this was another reason I resented her, because I couldn't control this either. I wanted it to free up time for us, but that is beside the point i guess.

[Zues126]

Py- do you see that every time you make a concession about your own behavior, you follow it with a comment about your W?

I am angry...BUT her best interest isn't the children
I am controlling- to a degree...BUT blah blah blah 4 times as much about W's treatment of you.

Is separating her behavior from yours and just focusing on yours too complicated? Do you not believe it's important? Or is it just too painful and difficult and you just can't help yourself?

My last post took an hour and covers a lot of ground. I am giving you credit for being very MOTIVATED and ASTUTE. I would really like to see you drop your W's behavior, your pain, and the wrongs that have been or are being done to you. You are creating your own HELL. And if you can't get past that growth will be very difficult, as will your chance at a good R in the future.

[Pyrite]

just a quick note.

thanks for your instruction. it is very good advice.



venting: she actually berated me a 2nd time about paying too much attention to the girls. She said after her Mum visited, she reported that the girls were very happy with me, and while the youngest was sleeping I played constantly wit the older one, painting, drawing etc. Can you stop this please?

WTF - i know, i know, she is not making any sense because of where she is, and i need to step up, realise this, and not let these things get to me.

I wish we could email only. she admitted she doesn't read my emails because she doesn't understand them. i sent an email about custody/ relocation proposal to her a month ago, CC: our mediator, my sister, my mum read it before i sent. Everyone is clear. She doesn't understand. in this case she just deleted it. In the past when this happens, she doesn't unerstand - so she calls me.i try to explain for a while and then lose patience with her.

i might be better now with the patience bit after all the good advice here, time since BD, and now DR which i am looking forward to reading more tonight.

[Pyrite]

i do see it and am aware of it. you're right - I can't help it. I will make a concerted effort to stop it.

EDIT: thanks for all your time Zeus, and everybody else.

[Zues126]

And BTW- my STBX was and is neurotically controlling about parenting. She devoted 100% of her energy into being a mother and withdrew from being a wife. She has VIDEO CAMERAS in every room so she can monitor the kids at all times. She is extremely overprotective. I felt like I couldn't be a dad because she wouldn't let me in. And even my DB coach thinks she may have some type of borderline personality issues and has an unhealthy relationship with the kids because she is using them for their love and to play "good mom" for recognition/admiration from others, and she's more concerned on using them to meet her needs than she is on meeting theirs.

HOWEVER!!! While I'm dimly aware of that, I honestly don't give it much time. It's about as relevant as whether or not Justin Bieber likes Broccoli or not. It has NOTHING TO DO with your journey. Great, my STBX is a flawed human that makes mistakes. So what? I am too. I need to work on MY mistakes. And the biggest mistake is FOCUSING ON HER MISTAKES!!!

This idea that your STBX is so crazy it somehow changes this pricipal and we just don't understand it has to go. We get it. But you have to let go of monitoring/judging her behavior. That's why we're saying you're controlling. People that aren't controlling don't do this. You do it so innately you can't even see you're doing it. Maybe it's like breathing, you don't know another way to operate? I'm not attacking Py, just curious why this is such a hang up.

[Zues126]

Thanks Py. I understand she has deleted a few of your emails. I still think this is the best option.

The challenge is that simply stating "I AM ONLY COMMUNICATING THROUGH EMAIL" sounds a little controlling, like once again Py is dictating how you will communicate.

On the other hand, if you DON'T do that you will make MANY destructive mistakes.

I'd meditate and pray on that, to see if there is a way you can make a boundary for yourself and protect yourself from spew without being judging or controlling.

"W, you are right that it is important that we are able to communicate effectively so we can work together for the children. At this time I am unable to do this effectively by phone so will be using email to discuss schedules and other logistics. Please only call me if it is an emergency involving our children. Thank you for your understanding."

Then back it up by not taking her calls and not calling back unless it truly is an emergency.

Something like that. I don't know. I should probably go back to bed. But my point is while that email may be a little bit controlling in terms of types of communication, it will allow you to make all future correspondence with the tone you want. And I think that's in line with your mission statement.

[Pyrite]

all very good points. - please dont lose sleep on my account.back to bed. sweet dreams.

[Pyrite]

But you don't get a lot of slack. She's looking with a MICROSCOPE for any sign that everything you're doing is an act to try to control her in some way. The moment she sees any sign of your old mission statement (which is your current mission statement until you CHANGE it, which is why what you're doing here is SO IMPORTANT) she will ignore everything else and focus on that.

do you really think so? I don't think she really cares anymore. I think there was once a time when she was possibly looking for the opposite. i.e. to see how long I could go without being controlling. I think now she has made her move and their is no looking back as far as she is concerned.

but you're right - i'm doing it again. talking about her. OK switch.

My best man called for a chat. He ran into a girl from our past (~24 years ago). Good old times they were
Anyway, I mentioned someplace here that 1 thing I am seriously considering is sailing. I was intending on just sailing small (~10ft) boats by myself. I mentioned this to my friend as we have chartered a bigger boat before and sailed around tropical islands for a week. He has done it a number of times. He is keen to charter bigger boats and sail around locally on day trips, just for the sailing. Also, i organised staying a weekend for me and the girls at his ski lodge.

i'm picking up my little girl from kinder tomorrow and spending the evening with her. She has been distressed the last few days. She misses me, even though it was end of my week only 36 hrs ago. I have to organise where we can go that would be least intrusive to he schedule. i.e. she's prepared to go back home rather than stay with me. I am happy for her to stay with me - but W already resents me for Daddy's girl's Daddy. Apart from making her life hell that is.

I also have to plan tomorrow nights handover. I think I will borrow your suggestion about Email communication Zeus. Although, I have said this to her before I can almost guarantee that I included my own agenda. e.g. I am not able to communicate effectively ATM "because you have destroyed my life"

[MrBond]

"but her agenda is NOT in the children best interests at all."

That's from YOUR POV. What YOU think is strictly your OPINION which you have a right to just as much as she does. That's why you have to learn how to validate.

You validate the fact that she has a right to feel the way she does as much as you do. Zeus is doing an excellent job at calling you out on your BS. You're not getting it which is why your W continues to treat you the way she does.