...and another WAS

[Bob723]

Hello Pyrite,

I think Heart14 has a good point about asking your wife for her help. Have you considered making a list of household chores? If you haven't done this, you might want to consider it.

I heard or read this somewhere...but I can't remember where.

Anyway, make a list of household chores,and then copy it. Both you and your wife should check the chores you would prefer or enjoy doing on your copy. When you compare your lists, if both you and your spouse have named the same chores, you can either take turns doing them, or divide them between the two of you. But you must approve each other's selections before they become your responsibilities.

What do you think?

Good luck!

Bob

[Zues126]

Pyrite- I love you man. Hope you know that we all want what's best in your life.

Man, no doubt this is a rough time. Tougher than I believed life can get. When things get this tough we do what we've always done...but just try harder. But, when things get truly horrible...at some point we look up to the sky and admit that we can't run our lives, that we don't have it all under control. That is when change is made possible. Whether from God, or just humility.

I think the reason everyone's pushing so hard is that we're not sensing you're there yet.

-You are arguing with Mr. Bond. No one has ever won an argument with Mr. Bond. It is like talking to a priest. You're not going to convert them to another religion, so either listen to what they have to say or not. But there is no debating. The fact that you continue to debate with him is a sign that you don't always know when to pick your battles.

-You are constantly trying to be right. Even if you're trying to admit your mistakes, you're trying to do so in a way to show that you're looking at it right "now" because, see, I'm focused on my mistakes.

-You talk as if your problems were in the past, and that you have them under control now. Or that you "correctly" don't have them under control but are confident that you are on the right track to fix them.

What I'm saying, brother, is why do you need to be right? What's wrong with being lost, confused, unsure, and broken? That is a healthy reaction to a loss like this, and it is a healthy state of mind to be in to allow this to transform you in a positive way.

Now you can respond by explaining how you're already doing all of this, how this is how you process those feelings, how you have done A/B/C to demonstrate you are on this track...or you can STFU and just sit with it and realize this is the impression you're getting from a lot of people. It seems like you need to be right a lot, and that won't get you far. As 25 says, if you're right you're SCREWED, because there is nothing you can change, and you'll always get what you've always got. Only through failure and a beginners mind can you start grow. Personally I would think that most of your growth is in your head, and what I mean by that is "rational understanding of marriage and relationship theory". I don't know that your heart and soul, the way you actually operate has really shifted. Nor would I EXPECT it to have given how recently BD was for you.

So I'm not saying you messed up, or that you're not trying. Maybe just don't try so hard, I think you're getting in your way. You are obviously exceptional in many ways, I am as well. I've made the mistake of thinking that meant I knew best. I don't. Ultimately I am a big screw up that can run a lot of balls and hit sales goals. In my circles I'm a big deal. In the big picture it doesn't matter. Like John Lennon said, "My mother is of the sky, my father is of the earth, I am of the universe, and you know what it's worth..."

Pyrite, maybe everything I said missed the mark completely. I am NOT MR. BOND. Far from it. I'm a complete disaster. But if so, just let it go and have a great life. You don't need to convince me you've got it under control. I'll never meet you, I wouldn't be able to pick you out in a police line up. Just shrug and laugh that there are weirdos like me that misunderstand you so badly.

Oh, I'll share my favorite quote about the link between failure, humility, and enlightenment. This was big to me because it was always so important that I did things RIGHT that when I fell short I felt so broken. Enjoy:

"When you expect it least, the ego, declared dead, will surge into your soul, and in an instant you will feel as far removed from Tao as Heaven from Earth.

Has this ever happened to you?
Don't despair.
Let it go.
Do what comes next.

Accepting failure is a humbling experience, akin to enlightenment. In an instant you'll discover that Heaven and Earth are one and you've never been separated from Tao.

The Taoist sage learns to live accepting failure, and never fails."

[Pyrite]

I get the impression from your posts that you felt you did everything and she did nothing. Did you ever ask her to help? Often we expect our spouses to anticipate our needs/wants. They aren't mind readers. We need to communicate these things to them. It's also important to realize they might not do things our way, but that doesn't mean their way is wrong. It's just different.

It seems like you set her up for constant failure because she could never be perfect enough. What we emphasize grows. If you mainly point out her faults, eventually that's all you (and she while she's with you) will see.

hi Heart,

Her flaws in general - absolutely agree that focusing on them is not a good strategy, and you make a very good point that "If you mainly point out her faults, eventually that's all you (and she while she's with you) will see." This is very unattractive and is no doubt true of what happened. I didn't make her feel good about herself.

I probably didn't ask for help - productively. It was probably more like a criticism. things were great before we had kids and I did everything then. It didn't really bother me. Kids meant more work and we got our own house. I raised my standards even and so was flat-out. But I didn't "turn" until 6-12 months after the 1st born and felt neglected. Talking w friends - I really was neglected, I wasn't imagining it. I tried to encourage her towards the relationship but gave up and became "resentful". Setting her up for continued failure etc.

Dont get me wrong, I can see how I have always harboured elements of this resent in my life. Towards anyone, but generally not towards her. And then, because she was so close to me this was even more intense.

Things I like about her. She's the sweetest, warmest, kindest, most compassionate, generous and most genuine person I have ever known. Since the day I met her we have been more comfortable with each other than anyone. We talked about anything and everything. She's fun and funny and the person I would most want to be with ever. But all that feels wrong because she hasn't been that person in my life for a long time
-P

[Pyrite]

You are absolutely right. I haven't really achieved anything short of academic success in RECOGNIZING these issues, let alone fix them.

I can't let it go

[MrBond]

"and if i haven't said already, I have been disrespectful of her and mistreated her in general. Just not particularly this one"

Still trying to insist you're right. Pig = disrespect. Go ahead and ask for a show of hands from those on the forum if calling their spouse a pig isn't disrespectful. If they think like you and say it's not, I'll stand down.

I sense a real lack of empathy from you.

[Pyrite]

No need for a poll. I agree that even using this language to describe her to others is disrespectful. Regardless of whatever my justification/excuses might be. I had deliberately thrown respect for her out the window in anger when I coined this phrase.

[Pyrite]

things are way past that unfortunately Bob.

[Zues126]

Pyrite,

I couldn't remember what your WAW's issues were with you during the M. I just reread your entire thread and still don't really know.

The first few pages were vague references to you not always treating her the best, that she was unhappy because you were also unhappy with her (followed by why), that you were potentially a WAS at one point, that you made changes recently and fixed things but it didn't matter. I read about your WAW's intimacy issues, childhood problems, lack of effort with daily life, focus on the children, sloppiness, and lack of notice for dropping the bomb. But nothing you really did wrong stands out in my memory banks.

The next few pages were you arguing with Mr. Bond.

When people make a comment like the one you just made and the many like it you've made, they typically are looking for people to say "oh, no, your WAW will come around". Or for sympathy.

Bad news. Sympathy won't get her back. And she won't come around if she believes she'll be coming back to the same man and the same M.

If you have made all the changes you can then I think you'd better accept the D as real, and may want to plan on staying single for a long time.

If that doesn't appeal to you, why not take this opportunity to start over and tell us why your W is actually leaving you. Pretend your the lawyer, we're the jury, and you have to make your best case on why she should never want to be M to you...how would you present that?

We want to see you save your M but you have to start walking that path. It's not too late but time does matter. Do this in five years from now and it will be. But like the saying goes, "the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, the second best time is now". Can you take this on?

[Pyrite]

thanks for the reply Zeus. I will get back to you about that and more later. gotta dash right now.
i am ready to take it on. Thanks again for your support.

[Zues126]

cool. also- read my last exchange with nolegirl. we're all in the same boat brother.