...and another WAS

[Pyrite]

Thank-you and Thank-you for sharing. It is remarkable how similar our story is. I don't play pool, but in the words of an old friend many years ago warning my wife, "He does EVERYTHING harder than anybody else". Unfortunately this also included drug use and partying which persisted until I was 30, setting me up for more things to whinge about now.

It also started with my Father's expectations. He does the same (to a lesser degree) with my kids and nephews, but we squash him now. My sister reacted differently to our upbringing (also he was much harder on me), but I developed your approach and just "killed" everything I approached. It wasn't for him anymore, it just became who I was. And I absolutely can see how I set my W up to be my "ego" stroker and when she failed in her duty I criticised her the way my Dad would've criticised me. In my head perhaps, but that created the outward behaviour. I suck . have you ever discussed this with your wife. why are you resolved to NOT try to resurrect the M?

[Pyrite]

this doing everything "hard" was also true of virtuous aspects in the R. I suppose like in other respects, I am a mixture of my mother and father emotionally as well. that was my upbringing i guess, although my father was not there very much at all. maybe this intensified it. the rare occasions i did interact with him was always a performance reward/punishment scenario. from a ridiculously young age. i remember 4. My mum has told me stories of when i was 2. his behaviour fits, and i can see where it comes from, have been able to for a long time. i dont get along with him very well. i have always cringed at things i can feel myself doing that are of this same ilk. Now it has destroyed my M. All thats left for me to do realistically is NOT make the same mistake with my girls. BUT, thank god, i can honestly say I have NEVER pushed them. My dad has even pushed me about this, "why congratulate them on .....". they didn't do it right. i guess i use my Mum's grace. I actually suspect now that this is what i did in the R earlier. When things started going "bad", i pulled up this other behaviour/mechanism, although - it was always there to a degree.

[MrBond]

"She may very well be criticising characteristics of my personality. Does this make her wrong or disrespectful? I think it is unrealistic that two people live together and dont comment on the fact that one of them never does any housework. If she were to post the truths "well i never once cleaned the toilet or did the floors etc", would she deserve criticism. I suspect you would end up calling her selfish, or self centered. So is this something she should change as well? I wish, I have and is basically a condition of ever getting back together. There are more examples of her self centred-ness aside from housework. The point was her self centredness towards housework was trival. "

You called her a pig. Deal with it rather than constantly defending why you did it and making sound like it was a positive thing.

"No - I am not her father, her father was absent in most respects. Does that mean a partner should not suggest ways the other might improve their chances at job interviews, presentations, etc. "

Depends on how you "suggest" those things. If you took it from the position of you "knowing better" than her, then you're her father.

"Lack of respect I have for her?? Thats rich. She's f**ing another guy and posting pictures of him and my girls on the web as her family."

There you go again. She lost respect for you BEFORE she started going out with the other guy.

"yes yes yes i know this is about me. truth is she may be incredibly flawed, but we are still talking about me. if her flaws are that serious, i can just let her keep walking. still my flaws will remain."

Again posting about HER flaws, etc. The only one you can change is yourself right now.

"HOWEVER, I GET ALL YOUR POINTS ALTRUISTICALLY, and there is truth to them. My ego is a problem."

You don't say?

"I will think about this more, although I already could write for a day about most of the things."

No you mean you could spend a day DEBATING most of these things. Bottom line is if you don't change, your situation won't.

"Infant it is my instinct. I can rationalise it as catching her before its too late."

No it seems like you're trying to correct another of her "mistakes" that you perceive.

"But *rationally* I suspect this is probably not a good idea. 1: its already too late 2: she is not receptive to anything I say 3. i am not really better, i just have some more clarity about why i was an arse"

You mean why you still are an arse. Sorry but that's how you come across.

[Pyrite]

Mr Bond,

the ego thing. as i have said in the last few posts i had to be the best at whatever I was doing. i can see now how this has been true for a long long time. i have an extra complication which maybe i'll talk about another time but basically i can map the last 20 years in this pattern.

i have been grappling for the last few years, where did this 'anger' come from, this intolerant attitude, this competitiveness. I think they are all linked, through my ego. I could possibly word this better, but i feel compelled to get it out now.

i ended up back at Uni when I was 27. I had already risen to more or less the height of another career. from there on it was pretty much about repeating more of the same. The ego stroking was becoming mundane. I decided on the banks of the Ganges, 4500 Metres in he Himalayas that i wanted to be a physicist. I was dux of my class every year. I easily won a scholarship to do a PhD. I collaborated with people from Harvard, Princeton, Caltech. My ego was loving it. Rationally I made the decision to pursue the family root. But my ego was screwed and it has been getting worse ever since.

i have spent a lot of time thinking about how certain episodes that "remind" me of my poor behaviour of late fit together. There are always outliers, and then I remember an even earlier episode which doesn't fit at all.

[Zues126]

I remember the day that my IC told me I was crazy. He said it just like that. Then he said, "you have to understand, your W has been living with a crazy person for the last 7 years". This was 2 years before BD.

I looked at him and said "I'm not delusional. This isn't all in my head. I know I seem grandiose, but I didn't image that I am beating world champions in international competition, I didn't dream up the fact that I got promoted 3 times in 3 years, or that I was the number one sales rep every month until those promotions. So somehow something I'm doing is actually getting results."

To which he replied "right. But you're also not dreaming that you and your W haven't spoken a word for 90 days..."

What I can tell you is this- addicts are very smart. We feel like we get things because we can mince a lot of psychobabble in our heads to think we understand the issue. Shoot, I did that at times during my M. I thought I had things figured out a few times. I didn't.

What finally changed is that I realized that I can BS the rest of the world, but if I want to attain my goal of a real healthy M someday, well...I need to REALLY change. That meant more than a great looking research paper about how I work.

You are so close to BD it's hard for me to think you have got all of your lifelong challenges ironed out. It would be like someone saying they got their PHD in 2 years. Maybe it's possible, I don't know, but skeptical hippo is skeptical. It's better to be flawed, at least then you have a shot to change your life. When you're perfect and things still stink, then you're doomed.

You asked why I don't talk to my W about this. Because I've probably said it all before. Because she doesn't care anymore and isn't in a place of logic. Because if she's not able to see what I bring based on the changes I DID demonstrate in the months after BD and that I continue to demonstrate with the kids, and if she's so deep in her own problems that she continues to make destructive choices, then I am better off keeping her at a distance anyway.

I am going to finalize the D to protect myself, continue forward for a year and a day, or whatever is the right amount of time. I am going to get in better shape again, get my apartment finished into a man lair, get to the top of my new sales gig (started 5 months ago, still a rookie), and have some fun with my buddies. When the timing is right I'll be in a much better head space, ready for a serious M, will know what I want and what I'm looking for, and will be ready to partner up. If my STBX does something between now and then that indicates she's interested in that and she's ready to put in the same effort I am, well, I might be down for that. I don't expect that to happen but am not burning that bridge. Either way I'll keep going forward and will do the best I can.

So I just don't think a conversation would change anything. I believe in speaking only with actions. And that's all I listen to either.

Stay strong on your journey and enjoy the ride!

[Pyrite]

No you mean you could spend a day DEBATING most of these things. Bottom line is if you don't change, your situation won't.

my "debating" doesn't mean disagreeing. i realise that i have to change. i am skeptical my situation with the W will or can change. my ego has been a problem for a long time. it was otherwise taken care of for the most(worst) part for the 1st six years.

"Infant it is my instinct. I can rationalise it as catching her before its too late."

No it seems like you're trying to correct another of her "mistakes" that you perceive.

"But *rationally* I suspect this is probably not a good idea. 1: its already too late 2: she is not receptive to anything I say 3. i am not really better, i just have some more clarity about why i was an arse"

OK, your right. So does this mean I should just let her go?

You mean why you still are an arse. Sorry but that's how you come across.

Gimme a break. it's only been a matter of days. How do you suggest I proceed?

[Pyrite]

"yes yes yes i know this is about me. truth is she may be incredibly flawed, but we are still talking about me. if her flaws are that serious, i can just let her keep walking. still my flaws will remain."

Again posting about HER flaws, etc. The only one you can change is yourself right now.

this is a misunderstanding. i meant even IF she was incredibly flawed. and then the rest is supposed to imply that even if she has faults, I can only change mine anyway

[Pyrite]

"Infant it is my instinct. I can rationalise it as catching her before its too late."

No it seems like you're trying to correct another of her "mistakes" that you perceive.

"But *rationally* I suspect this is probably not a good idea. 1: its already too late 2: she is not receptive to anything I say 3. i am not really better, i just have some more clarity about why i was an arse"

OK, your right. So does this mean I should just let her go?

To answer my own question, I think the answer is Yes. Let her go. There is nothing to do now. Other than GAL etc. If we get back together, it will be just that. After fighting myself for the past few months, I am beginning to realise that the simplest advice, given to me at the start, was where I am back to now. Collating remarks from several sources and abridging - detach, move on, focus on you and if it was meant to be, then it will be.

[Pyrite]

Thanks again. I dont for a second think I am even close to being "fixed". But I do feel much calmer in being able to accept the situation. I can even appreciate Toots' words that I need to respect her decision. I still believe she should have worked on it, but in reality, i don't think I would even have come this far. I had to be stripped bare before I could see some of these things. Maybe it is more like I needed to be pushed so hard emotionally that it was not such a reach after all to grasp my own "inadequacies". I dont blame her anymore. Honestly for the first time. Yes she had issues that she brought to the M as well, but I AM responsible for making her unhappy enough to leave. Who knows how any of her issues would've panned out.

[Pyrite]

You are so close to BD it's hard for me to think you have got all of your lifelong challenges ironed out. It would be like someone saying they got their PHD in 2 years. Maybe it's possible, I don't know, but skeptical hippo is skeptical. It's better to be flawed, at least then you have a shot to change your life. When you're perfect and things still stink, then you're doomed.

I don't think I have my lifelong challenges ironed out. I wish it was that simple. I am an analyst by nature, and very good at it. Handy in my line of work. I have spent a great deal of time analyzing my life, and where I am today. Way before BD. Those conclusions are not wrong, nor necessarily superseded theories. Nor are they particularly resolved either I hasten to add.

This catastrophic event however has sharpened my awareness of how I have behaved WRT my W in particular. I have, owned up to many things which before I could not, even to myself. There are still others which I have privately considered, but until recently have dismissed. I wouldn't do that I thought. Or think that. But I do, or did. And I am ashamed. But there is nothing I can do about that now, and the culmination of all those things is D.

I am very lucky to have the job I do. It has afforded me almost all of the time since BD to reflect. This has also been a huge negative. Without the forced distraction I have been dwelling on this 24/7. In my cycling I have "enjoyed" periods of extended depression. Basically because I can see this as my fault. I eventually free myself by getting angry. As that subsides I can detach more efficiently, which makes the next round of depression easier to deal with.

Since finding this forum (still waiting on delivery of DR even), I have found at least two remarkable things. One is the very helpful, controlling ego driven interpretation of how I (mis)treated my wife, and secondly is my increased acceptance of fault during depression cycles. I mean I am not so eager to push it away with anger, nor deny it. I can sit for longer in the depression stages without being overwhelmed, as if I am more forgiving of myself.

In the anger stages I usually deny my W forgiveness. Just last week, or a few days ago even, I couldn't imagine ever forgiving her, let alone being friends with er, and I am not saying that now that I do truly forgive her or want to be friends. But the idea doesn't seem like it will never, ever happen. It feels like I can admit (even if it is only to myself and you guys) that I am a screw up, and while she left, I caused her to be that unhappy. This sits a lot better with me believe it or not, than blaming her, and trying to work out how she changed so much to do that.