Enjoying the ride

[SunnyB]

I'm going to be coming with a lot of baggage to anyone brave enough to draw close to me. I think it will be fairly easy to separate the wheat from the chaff. Chaff need not apply. I'm not going to be watching past behavior. I'm going to watch very closely how they are with me. How included am I in his life? How interested is he in mine? Are we making plans together? Are we making short term plans that are fun and that reveal more of us to one another? Is he willing to learn to love what I love, and share what he loves with me? That's what I'll be watching for. .

Although I don't dwell on it, I have thought about this. Yes I'm gonna be dragging some baggage with me. And I go back and forth between whether I'll put up with too much cr*p because that's what I am used to doing, or whether I'll be so picky that no one could ever live up to expectations. I hope I find a middle ground. And a great guy.

[Zues126]

Awww! You guys bumped my thread! Thanks DB friends!

I've been thinking of posting anyway, first I'll reply. Maybell, I agree 100%. I won't hold out for PERFECT because that's not possible and can in fact be destructive, but I won't settle for terrible because not only isn't that what I want, it won't last. I mentioned this a few posts ago but most people leave terrible at some point, so the best chance of a LASTING relationship is a GOOD one.

Yes I've got some baggage, and some flaws. But I realized that having a good M is my LIFELONG GOAL. I have come to discover that since 2011 when my M got rough I have spent a LOT of time working on myself and my understanding of Ms. And since BD this has tripled. I work. I play my games (that really minimizes the levels at which I compete by the way ). I raise my children. And I PREPARE.

I am preparing for my next R all the time. Right now that means learning from my mistakes, growing as a person, sorting through some of these difficult questions of balance between expectations and boundaries, etc. It means getting through the D and taking time to make sure I know how to make myself happy, and that I'm truly detached and prepared to give my future love my best self. It means doing some work to know how to select a partner that is ready to reciprocate my effort and commitment. And it means during the M to continue to make it my top priority behind only my relationship with God.

As I continuously state I am a competitor, and I am "training" for my next R with the intensity that I trained for a big challenge match. I can't guarantee success. I can't guarantee I will find the right woman, that I will be up to the task, or that she won't get hit by a car the day we do get M. But I CAN guarantee that I look back on my life I will know that I did everything I could to invite that into my life, and that I did so in a way I can feel proud of.

Wishing all of you comfort and peace tonight!

PS- I have another post to make but all of my posts get too long, so I'll post more another time.

[Zues126]

I had TWO meetings with my DB coach this week. What prompted this was a text from my sister. I haven't talked to her since Thanksgiving. For those that didn't follow or don't recall, my sister has been uncomfortably close to STBX since before BD. Things that have really disturbed me about my sisters behavior:

-She divorced her husband because she "didn't feel the passion"
-She went out drinking with my STBX the weekend before I was BD and it sounds like she was an advocate to "just be happy"
-She has been very flippant and minimizing of the D with children, "it's better that you'll both be happy"...
-When my STBX BD'd me she wrote me a two page email citing all of my faults. My sister had apparently proofread this for her prior to it being delivered.
-She minimized STBX's multiple affairs and alcoholism as "a summer fling"
-Even after STBX's suicide attempt and my addressing this with her, she has continued to be very close with STBX

I was in a tough spot. I didn't know what to do. I honestly felt I might never talk to my sister again, not just out of anger (although I was upset with her), but simply because I feel she lacks the values I'd want from those that surround me and my loved ones. Make no mistake...heart of gold, great intentions. Just doesn't seem to respect things beyond emotional gratification at times.

But I didn't want to just write off my sister. So my DB coach had me do an excersize in which I wrote out what feelings I'd express to her. Here was my coaches paraphrasing:

"I want to reply to your recent text wherein you indicate we haven't had much contact lately. I want to tell you I really feel you've endorsed STBX's intentions to leave me and the actions that set into play the destruction of my family. I am alarmed by how you minimized the danger of her continued affairs and alcoholism, and their impacts to my children. I haven't felt that you've understood the depth of the pain I've endured, while you have supported STBX's anger towards me. In many ways it feels as if you have divorced me as well by aligning yourself with a woman that broke my heart and seeming to celebrate the events that have devastated my family. And when I told you how I felt last fall it feels that nothing has changed. My first reaction was to not reply at all, and it is only out of great faith in our relationship that I am sharing these feelings with you."

I DIDN'T communicate this to sister. The reason why is 1) I'm not sure it would be effective, and 2) I don't trust this wouldn't get communicated somehow to STBX over a bottle of wine, and I want to keep my and my STBX's emotional universes completely separated for a while. It's good for me, and it's good for her.

That said, it helped me wrestle with my feelings. I was having a hard time walking the balance between reacting emotionally to my feelings of betrayal vs. choosing healthy boundaries from a serene state of mind. I think this is something many of us struggle with and this helped me realize that just because I had these feelings didn't mean I couldn't keep a safe distance from my sister without it being punitive.

So I replied to her invite to get together with something that basically said "I have a lot going on, I'll let you know when that changes." Sister replied casually and didn't seem to feel any rejection or hostility so that is fine. I'll see her at easter and be pleasant and distant. Maybe someday we go somewhere else from here, but this is where I am today.

More I could write about with my DB coach. Thought this was an interesting step.

[Sotto]

Hi Zues, that's must be hard to feel this way about your sister's role. Some of what she is doing may well be retrospective justification for her own former actions perhaps?

One of H's sisters wasn't directly supportive of his A - but said if he was unhappy then maybe it was time for a change. His other sister has been openly unhappy about his A and has told him so.

Funnily enough, my sister and me fell out for a few years because she struggled to accept H. We had a bust up when she didn't invite him to a family event. And I became a bit of a lioness about it. We reconciled a year or so before BD, and we can now see each other and be pleasant. We're not particularly close though...

[Zues126]

Thanks for the post Toots. It's just another way that we learn how life doesn't always work out the way we expect it.

The other thing I have been working on with my DB coach is my personal growth goals. Again, my goal is to get to a spot where I'm both happy on my own, but also readier than ever to be in a healthy M.

In some ways M seems almost impossible. But then, that's also because most people (including me and STBX) just expected it to work out. Yeah, we figured we'd have to resolve a few disputes, compromise a few times, etc. But we were approaching it like it would just take good intentions and a little maintenance here and there. I didn't realize what it REALLY took.

I think about what I put into pool. What I put into my job. I put in a TREMENDOUS amount of hours and energy. I studied, sacrificed, practiced, and didn't settle until I was where I wanted to be. I realize that for an M to work I must put in the same type of priority and focused effort. I wish that was taught, but like finances most people just have to fend for themselves. I am glad I'll be able to teach this to my children at least, although I'm hoping to show them as well.

I know what I'll be looking for in my next partner is someone that shares that attitude, and is serious about a lasting M. Not just WANTING a lasting M, but who feels the start of a new R is like the first steps of a climb up mount Everest. The uncommitted need not apply.

I am reaching a spot of true forgiveness for my own faults as I didn't know better and we are all flawed. Likewise, I am forgiving my STBX for leaving, as SHE didn't know better either. Now I'm looking forward. My R with my sister is important because since I'm a ways out from another woman, my interpersonal relationships are my best chance to test my growth. So I'm excited to put the best ME forward.

Funny, I am doing well on my own and proud of who I've become. I'm still a little impatient to get to my next R. Partly because I really want to test myself with that challenge (I am a competitor!), partly because I miss the companionship. But I know I still need to let that go and get more and more comfortable on my own, and I still have way too much baggage to bring into a new R. Not to mention I'm still married

OK, love to all of you, take care and goodnight!

[Zues126]

What is appropriate vs. inappropriate in terms of me setting boundaries with my family?

Easter is coming up. My uncle who normally hosts Easter was only recently informed about our separation. I believe he only heard about it from STBX, so I have no idea what his view of the situation is. STBX may be wanting/expecting to come for a visit with my family on Easter.

I don't want her at my family get together. Is it unreasonable to ask my uncle not to invite her (since he can't mindread and has no idea how amicable or non-amicable the situation is)? Is it ok for me to share what why I don't want her there, or is it better to just tell him we're going through a low trust divorce and it wouldn't be ideal?

Personally I feel my STBX doesn't deserve to be part of my family anymore and I'd feel a bit disappointed and betrayed by any family members that overlooked the decisions she has made...however, what I feel isn't always healthy and mature.

What are your thoughts? Have you had family that continued to remain close with WWs?

[SunnyB]

Zues, have you and W talked about Easter as far as the kids go? Would they be at uncles with you? Is it out of the realm of possibility that she could come and everyone, including you, could just be polite? Or is that not realistic? Polite doesn't imply that anyone agrees with her choices or imply a close relationship. But maybe you just aren't there and that's ok. That's why I'm asking.

[Zues126]

I celebrate Easter a different weekend as my family is Greek Orthodox.

She has the children American Easter.
I have the children Greek Easter.

I don't trust my feelings on this one. My feelings are I never want to speak to her again, nor do I want to speak to anyone that wants to remain friends with her again. Clearly that is not a great place to make decisions from.

I have been praying for strength. I have forgiven her for her decisions (I think?), and I am at peace more than I was. Still, I can't stand the thought of being around her. It would hurt me too much at this point.

From a boundaries standpoint she has done some things that are dishonest and deceptive. Our D may be getting very confrontational. And she has spewed at me nearly every interaction for the last 9 months. That is enough to make me want to stay away from a practical standpoint as well.

Oh, and if consequences would help her face reality, I don't like the idea of my family pretending what she's done doesn't impact her standing. It may be good for her to realize it IS a big deal. Whether that is for R, or for her own personal growth.

Those are my arguments for not sharing this holiday. Where it gets tricky is how to handle things if my family doesn't agree. Do I have a right to ask them to end their R's with her? Do I have a right to share why (when I have respected the privacy of her decisions until now)? Do I have a right to exclude my presence if my boundaries aren't respected in not having her present? Or do I need to just suck it up? And is that really what's best?

I can suffer if I believe it's the right thing to do. I just don't believe it unless I'm missing something.

[Zues126]

PS- My DB Coach is pushing me to have at least superficial exchanges during kid handoffs. She says this is a requirement for the kids sense of safety and wellbeing.

I told her how hard this was for me, how wrong I felt it was that she got to spew at me and use every interaction for an opportunity to try to push my buttons, and I was supposed to continue to interact. She said I could be "strategic" and interact in ways that wouldn't make myself vulnerable, while still doing this for the kids.

This is a very difficult request but I am making efforts. DB Coach said this will help my detachment as well. She said as we begin to interact a bit I'll see her more as the person she really is, as an ordinary person (vs. the larger than life person she becomes in my mind as I wrestle with my loss and empower her to represent all of my troubles).

I add this on to mention that I understand that I am not detached. I have reached a certain level of ACCEPTANCE about my sitch, and a certain level of FORGIVENESS to myself and to her. But to actually DETACH and not allow her or my sitch to trigger my emotions about the loss...that I am still wrestling with. I am facing it though as best I can.

[Calibri]

I don't trust my feelings on this one. My feelings are I never want to speak to her again, nor do I want to speak to anyone that wants to remain friends with her again. Clearly that is not a great place to make decisions from.

Wow, that's a pretty serious stance. I know you mentioned that you found out some things last week and now don't want to never speak to her, but to extend that to people who want to remain friends with her?

Why can't people remain friends with her? The breakup is between your W and you. Everyone else, for the most part is a neutral party.

From a boundaries standpoint she has done some things that are dishonest and deceptive. Our D may be getting very confrontational. And she has spewed at me nearly every interaction for the last 9 months. That is enough to make me want to stay away from a practical standpoint as well.

Understandable.

Oh, and if consequences would help her face reality, I don't like the idea of my family pretending what she's done doesn't impact her standing. It may be good for her to realize it IS a big deal. Whether that is for R, or for her own personal growth.

But that's your family's decision though, IMHO, not yours. I know when my mom and dad divorced, my mom became really upset that her father very vocally blamed her for the demise of her marriage and always stuck up for my father. It was until 2012 (29 years after they divorced) when my grandfather learned about the horrible things my dad was doing to me, that he changed his stance on his opinion of my father, but only slightly. Still pisses my mom off till this day. My father's parents, on the other hand, kept a cordial relationship with my mom (likely because of me) and maintained a relationship with her until they passed, despite my father hurling every amount of mud at my mothers character.

Those are my arguments for not sharing this holiday. Where it gets tricky is how to handle things if my family doesn't agree. Do I have a right to ask them to end their R's with her? Do I have a right to share why (when I have respected the privacy of her decisions until now)? Do I have a right to exclude my presence if my boundaries aren't respected in not having her present? Or do I need to just suck it up? And is that really what's best?

I'm glad to see you're saying THIS holiday instead of all holidays, because your STBX will be in your life for the rest of your life. Do you have a right to ask your family to end their relationships with her? No. Everyone is an adult and should be allowed to make their decisions accordingly. Do you have a right to ask that she not be included/share why? I would personally ask if she's been invited before opening the can of worms. You could always say, "Uncle bob, STBX and I are having serious conflicts regarding our impending D. I wanted you to know it might be uncomfortable for us both to be here to celebrate, so I wanted to let you know ahead of time that I may need to excuse myself if things get too tense."

Not knowing what the thing STBX did, I can't say if you should suck it up or not. I will tell you that I appreciated every time my families got together for big milestones in my life, they all sucked it up and were beyond pleasant. I knew it was hard to do and to keep a smile on their faces, but my parents always came together and acted like adults. Even when they wanted to strangle one another.

Just food for thought.

I can suffer if I believe it's the right thing to do. I just don't believe it unless I'm missing something.[/quote]