Zelda - reflecting and grieving

[Vanilla]

Z

Consider a download of the book codependent no more.

V

[Zelda09]

I wonder if my H is stalking me in a very true to his style, indirect way.

V, will go looking for the book. M, I have been transparent.

Tonight, a friend had her launch party for a novel she's written, all expenses paid by her publisher. I was on my way and a friend called to let me known H was there, all nonchalant and jovial, drinking a beer, shaking hands with everyone he could. WTF. These are my friends. This particular author - he's made fun of her. Why would he be there. My friend said H followed him around the party: friend, you don't look so well...H, I do not feel well...friend, are you ok? Not really, H, I think I need to go...Friend called me to warm me.

WTF is this. Friend said he believes H means to harm me, psychologically, emotionally, however he can.

He certainly has no direct desire to meet up with, plead his case.

WHY would he do this? These are my friends, not his.

[Calibri]

Locks on house changed yet?

[Sotto]

Hi Z. I think you are doing a lot of mindreading in the above post there about H motives. And you are putting the worst possible spin on them.

If I look at it, I see a man who isn't in a good place and is finding it hard to let go...

I haven't read all of your sitch carefully, so I would qualify the above with that. But do be careful not to interpret things in the worst possible way.

Take care Z..

[JellyB]

Hey Z, I'm new here and not much of a poster, but your situation touched me for a number of reasons, which I won't go into here, but I hope maybe I can offer you some comfort.

First things first, your H behaviour is typical of some men who experience the grief and loss of a loved one, and even more so his behaviour is typical of man who presented in the R and M as he did.

You are wise to ask about his behaviour and how it impacts on your safety, physically and emotionally. And now is the time not necessarily to overreact, but to be cautious with yourself and your safety. H is unpredictable right now.

Your H is in obvious crisis (mental health)

Secondly there is a need to break the pattern. From how you describe your past, in your very detailed post of your history, it would appear that the two of you have a tried and true method of how you reignite and bring meaning and value to each other (code for DRAMA)

I would say your H is expecting you to take your turn to pursue and fix, and in doing so you hope that the loving romantic man who knows you like know other will return , and he will play the grateful H who loves be saved and pursued by you and then eventually he will punish you again likely because he feels vulnerable to you potentially rejecting him his feelings overwhelm him ,and he acts out again.

I have lived this relationship. I know it's nuances.

Your H pattern of behaviours - what they are, only a very good psychologist is likely to known, borderline personality disorder, narcisstic personality disorder, Bi-polar - who knows. This is not for you to know or fix, the responsibility for this falls to his family and friends, if indeed he still has any left in his life.

This is not your responsibility!!!!!!!!!

Please know that his behaviour, his threats, his intimidation his pain, have nothing to do with who you are and how lovable you are!!!!!!!!!!

At this time your role as his intimate partner, significant other, is his trigger, If it was not you he would be playing this out with another partner.

Please know too that I don't doubt that somewhere in his mentally unwell brain, there was and is love.. A love only he understands.

But what you have to come to realise (a lesson hard learned by myself) is this kind of love will eat you up and spit you out....

In time you will come to realise that you chose him because he was like your father (I had one the same), your subconscious playing havoc in only seeking out what is familiar

In time you will come to realise that no matter how much to want to love him and fix him he has to do this for himself. He can't accept your love until he does. Your tipping good love into a bottomless pit. And yourself with it.

In time you will realise that if you love him you need to let him go, because he isn't going to get well with you right now.

Step back from the DRAMA that you and he create together, and find your peace first and let him find his. Love can't exist where DRAMA and FEAR are present.

I hope that has answered some of the whys...

I send you nothing but light and healing love. You can do this!

[Vanilla]

Z

Another resource from TED



TED talk the Green Truck

V

[Zelda09]

Calibri, locks are changed, yes. I did it like a man today without opening directions and that made me laugh, thinking about the traditional Chinese medicine practitioner last night who told me he could see a huge cloud of yang energy around me.

Toots, your point is well taken. It turns out H was actually invited out by my friends' H to this party. That makes everything much, much less creepy. They had lunch together last week, and H represented that he broke my phone and must have really scared me, I kicked him out, and he thought this was really it. Friend didn't cut him much slack on that, but I guess didn't think to mention it to me since we were only just having 'trouble.' It's ok. How could he know that the last time I accidentally ran into H I became ill, and we couldn't even muster hello to each other, or that his friend told him about 20% of what actually happened that night.

Jelly - I am bad at quoting things, but I have to tell you, the paragraph about the overwhelming feelings stemming out of his 'rejection' -makes a lot of sense. No matter, it's not a dance I have to continue. As the popular little meme says, when someone wants to be with you, they'll be with you. Period. There won't be excuses, drama, shadiness, or uncertainty. Can I ask - your thread, this relationship you say you've lived - is it in the past, or is this the recent one you're dealing with? Thanks for the support and dropping by.

V - the TED talk is good. But I am struggling still to see H as an 'abuser'.

I see him having some abusive behaviors, the bullying and intimidation any time I questioned his behavior, and I believe he feels powerless to manage his emotions or life - sustained effort isn't his thing. I think an abuser is a pursuer by nature, and is controlling and invasive, critical, the first to move into your space. My H was none of that. He never came at me with criticism, was rather like a golden retriever greeting me at the door each day, and unless disturbed by something I said to him in the vein of criticism - he kept this attitude up. H is the first to distance after a fight and has never really tried to make up when I break up with him, or ask for me to give him another chance. Was very supportive of my life, and rarely asked a prying question. Acted very secure in later years when he realized he wasn't competing with other men. Still, he had some extraordinary dark places within him.

I'm thinking of a time where, when he found out a teen I used to work with stabbed three people he didn't know in a hotel, he blurted out angrily, "Well, Z, what did you expect? This is what happens when people don't get the help they need." This was when we sat in the lobby of our MC for the first time and he was furious and cold toward me. The insinuation was hard for me to believe and is still.

Another friend told me today, he's been harassing our friends for months, texting them back things like, "you're not really my friend, why are you pretending to care about me" or guilt tripping them about how they haven't done enough for him. WOW. Why did no one talk to me about this. She said today they have been concerned about what looks like slipping mental health, but what also looked like he just gave up on his own life and M.

What a weirdo. That's all I got today.

Calibri, I am also thinking of your first post on last page. And I adore you for not stepping around it - what did I expect? In a very co-dependent fashion, I made all of his immature, irresponsible behavior something I could work with, from the beginning. No one held a gun to my head and said, be this man's mother and try to fix him and show him how wonderful he and life are. There were two of us in that relationship, and I agreed to be with a loose canon, who would go from golden retriever to someone ripping out my car stereo, punching things around me...less than fifteen times in six years did we have incidents like this, but there must have been hundreds of other verbal and emotional lashing out that I eventually 'talked through' with him and tried to believe would be different next time. In all fairness, the throwing things around me stopped for more than a couple years, and he stopped calling me obscenely nasty names, just got more creative with the insults. I can't blame him for being him when I tolerated it and even pursued him when we were on the brink of breaking up. :-/

There are parts of my H that are good and decent, and I will wish him well, that those parts may grow bigger in him. Maybe I have done him a favor by showing there are real boundaries and consequences.

It has been a week since I asked him to file a quit claim. He agreed, but I haven't heard from him. It is comical to think he will follow through on this (takes effort) and I am wondering if I should send this:

"H, taxes are filed. Have you taken care of Q.C yet? Please let me know, I will send you dissolution papers to have signed and notarized once this is done."

I see no reason to wait on this. Even if the man I love emerges with independence and full adulthood, that would be months or years down the road and I doubt I could ever recover from this. He's dropped enough statements about wanting to date other people, so good, let him. And if he ever changes his mind, I hope to be happily on with my life by then.

[Vanilla]

Z

Unfortunately I have to say I do see the abuse cycle here. There is quite a deal of good in your H of course and that may be why you struggle to see this. My H is relatively new to the current level of abuse he is occupying and he has not yet gone physical but I fear him if he does. Separating is the most dangerous time and your H (like mine) is minimising the problem.

These men do not really believe their own rhetoric and often they are subject to childhood abuse (high A scores) which require them to self adjust and seek treatment. They have not paid a high enough price to be willing to change. Your H will know his story is not accepted as the truth emerges and it is in honesty openness and willingness that change occurs (twelve step programmes call this HOW). Get all the support you can Z and if H is to change, even if this does not help your R, then he will see the writing on the wall. H may face his issues if this happens, as there will be cognitive dissonance.

Be aware that you may only hear the bad 'weirdo' stories about H; referred to as mobbing. Please accept that you played a role too in this and if there is codependency you will need to address it. Change for Z too. Leave H be to work his stuff, if you can pull more than your weight to get where you need to be then do it. Keep the interactions kind and minimal, more in sorrow than in anger as they say. Make it easy for yourself to achieve what you need.

My concern is Z, and if she understands that her childhood or adolescence may need resolving so that she never has this again in her life. Z, I want a rewarding life with children, happiness and great big dishes of gloopy happiness for you. I would like this now of course but there is likely to be repair work required.

V

[Zelda09]

V, you, Maybell, Calibri have all said this - I must have had some degree of co-dependence here. The need to replay old patterns. And I will continue seeing IC to address it. I chose my H bc of how LITTLE he reminded me of my father. Instead of big ego, big presence, big talk, substance abuse, controlling provider - I feel in love with someone unassuming, humble and thoughtful in nearly all respects the very opposite man. But the patterns have ended up feeling exactly the same.

The tug at my brain that someone so good is in there and worth rescuing from his own crisis. The feelings of elation and shock and awe in that cycle - I will consider what you are saying, this was abusive, even at a low level.

I changed my locks bc my friend told me a story about a co-worker today over lunch. Similar patterns. Throwing things periodically, counseling, talk, circle again in long cycles. Just the throwing things. Finally she had enough, and there was no pursuit from her H - for a long time. One night her H called her up desperate and pleading, months later, wanted her to meet him at a hotel. She did, she felt sorry for him and went to console. She got hurt physically very badly that night.

I don't know that I have any reason to expect this behavior from my H, as I expect him to simply move on to another female with her chit together enough to want to fix him and provide, be a friend to him, enable his dependence and victim life story. My gut feeling is he will never allow introspection or a break down, and is quite done.

Time will tell!

What do you think of me sending him the prod about the quit claim? Wait another week, or drive at it, get it done before he changes his mind? I'm of the opinion there is no use in waiting.

[Vanilla]

Z

Here is the key : worth rescuing from his own crises!

You already have my view on the prod.

V