Onwards and upwards.

[25yearsmlc]

Hello everyone.
Thank you all for your kind words of advice and comfort.

I didn't intend to alarm anyone with talk of suicide, or play the victim. As I say, the thoughts of my kids always stop me in my tracks. I'll be honest though in that if I didn't have them, there's a big chance I wouldn't have made it this far. I actually find that hard to digest. Surely I shouldn't want to live "just" because of my children, but that's what it's been like for me recently.
I can totally see how people get to the stage that they do it.

I understand this^^. Glad you are alright. We have lost a few DBers and spouses to suicide here on DB and its' a real blow to so many more people than they could ever know.

The fact that our kids are "The Only" reason to live has probably saved many lives, temporarily at least. I have seen the effects of suicide on families and it's horrific.

Ironically, it's also never produced what I assume the desired effect was. In one case, when our good friend lost his father to suicide after his wife left him, the kids were angry at him. Why weren't then enough for him? Why did he give up? Why wasn't he living a more fulfilling life, that one loss would so devastate him?

As for his x wife, to be blunt, she seemed fairly relieved and a bit sad...but None of us heard an ounce of self doubt about her choice to leave; by God, I think she felt the suicide validated her choice to leave.

But as you yourself can see, there must be more than our reliance on a relationship, to sustain our lives. The "more to life than our children" issue -- is ours to solve. It's not someone else's job to fill our lives or to give it or us meaning, we are in charge of our own happiness.

If your w had remained with you, would the kids AND her - be the "only" reasons to live? I hope not, but essentially, that is what you are implying by the statements.

Do you see my point?

Your wife's absence & divorce cannot ruin YOUR life - b/c it's YOUR LIFE TO LIVE and in truth, [i]she was never supposed to be in charge of your life or your happiness. It was always your job and always yours alone. Similarly, if SHE is happy that is not taking an ounce of happiness FROM you.
Her emotional state is NOT an index to yours.

If HER car breaks down, yours is not a faster, more expensive care BECAUSE of it--- these facts are not related. You must stop competing with your perception of her demeanor.

Aristotle said "Happiness is a virtue" and now I can see he meant was that it takes effort to be happy.

Happiness does not "land" on us, we create it, we nurture it, we balance it and we work to maintain it.
[/i]
The resentment you feel about her bff, though it's easy to understand, also strikes me as something you might want to look at someday...inwardly.

Meaning, maybe the bff was Not needy around your w. Maybe your w felt she could open up to her bff more, about fears, dreams, goals, incidents etc

b/c there was no danger of the bff getting worried or needier or judgmental or insecure, about any disclosures your w might make.

I read that "Disclosure builds intimacy" which is a tip that many people in politics and negotiations use to build rapport. I certainly believe it. If someone does not feel safe in disclosing things, then they'll go elsewhere.

You do seem to see things very negatively at this stage of your life. That will need to change. Yes Barry, it's not easy. We of all people know that it really stinks to be in your situation. So it's time to avail yourself of all the resources you can.

So, is your IC helping you? I know your GP said to stick wth the AD's but did you discuss possibly upping the dose? (Sorry if I missed that in the thread but I can't recall if you told your Doctor that you were feeling this badly, even now).

Not sure if I suggested this to you before, but there are 2 videos on youtube, on TED TALKS (2012 I think). They are about how to MAKE ourselves happier and there is solid empirical data they present to demonstrate this. One talk is by AMY CUDDY and the other is by SHAWN ACHOR, and each is about 20 min. Very entertaining and very enlightening.

I think you'll get a lot out of it, if you let yourself.


I'm already on anti-depressants...strong ones. I have been since Christmas. I see my GP regularly, I've been seeing an IC (although I have taken a break from it at her suggestion to attend an Emotional Wellbeing Course at my local college).


this^^^ sounds potentially very cool.

If you ever get a chance to come to the US, try the personal growth workshop called "Essential Experience" in Philadelphia. (Also called "EE").

It is quite literally, LIFE ALTERING. Several DBers have gone and we all got so much out of it. PowerOfNow, Autumn Leaves, Lucky Luke, me, my h (and he's not the workshop type) ALL HIGHLY recommend it.

I've been to a few types and "EE" is, by far, the most profound. (Another good one you might be closer to, is called "Life Spring" and i think they are international.)

For me and my work, a long weekend in which one can identify a problem area with exercises we cannot BS our way through, but must identify and process (B/C I for one tend to "edit" my reactions or rehearse them, and that's not always intentional. So I NEED to have exercises in which I discover things about myself I might not have wanted to...)

Finally, we create an action plan to work on our issues and to resolve them! WHAT???? Yes it's true.

So we'd finish the weekend with a strategy for creating a more fulfilling, more "Intentional" life.

Plus, the IC I had (a wonderful woman) was great. However when I'd make a break through or have a solid new insight, usually the time was almost up so I'd have to stop the work and go get the toddlers or go back to work. it was hard to recall it the next week's session. So for me, the weekly therapy, at times, was too fragmented.

So long weekends for workshops became the most efficient way for us to resolve a lot of conflicts AND OR painful items within. Definitely check out the Essential Experience website.

And do let us know how the Emotional Well being program is!


I've been reading the books and talking to trusted close friends and family. I've had little to NC with W and it was all helping to a degree. I really felt like I was DB'ing well, and I felt as good as could be expected right up to the day that W made me this offer to buy her out of our home.

We'd initially agreed on a six month separation (obviously I hoped that we would R at the end of this period, or at least make a start on piecing),


Not to beat a dead horse but....expectations are NOT helping you (or your wife or the situation, and certainly neither is continued pleading with her....You know this. Yet you inflict pain on yourself again and again...

but she didn't even get a third of the way through that before letting me know she wanted out. I found it really difficult to deal with that and it really knocked me back to day one again. I've struggled ever since then really.

My GAL has been terrible lately. I've had no energy, no zest for life, just sadness and heartache. I know GAL works as it got me through the first 6 weeks - I need to get back to that, but without ANY thoughts of R now. It's just not going to happen.

Not sure what you mean here^^^. But I think you are saying you need to GAL without hitching it to a r with your wife --ie you must NOT attach expectations, (which is so true)

but if you were really GAL (and not merely using another tactic to get a scrap of attention from her) then, she would not factor in here, at all...

AND that would not mean you had given up....

Barry am I talking to a plate here? I mean no offense by that, but I have said this til I"m blue in the face.

Maybe you do not really believe this....but I'll "gently remind you" anyhow, again, that

you cannot heal without Detaching and you cannot detach without GAL

My PMA (needless to say) has been awful since then too. It's almost like W saw me that day, and thought "Barry looks like he's really coping well and looks great - let me just knock him back down to Earth". I'm sure it wasn't that deliberate but OMG, how did she expect it to make me feel??

Well I bet she did Not expect you to feel WORSE. She cannot be held responsible for your sickness or your car/money problems, or the things that go wrong in all normal people's lives, forever. She wanted out of the marriage and you know that you played a role in that desire.

This^^ doesn't make you a "Loser" but it also does not make her a b1tch.

Do you get ^^this? You must MUST Disconnect her appearance and comments and apparent well being, from Yours.

I've hardly see the kids lately either (I have talked to them on the phone of course). This is partly because I've been in a bad place emotionally and I don't want them to see me like that any more. It's also that I can't go to my house to see them, we can't relax in my parents house, and I'm so worried about the immediate future

Your fears and discomfort cannot prevent you from seeing your children, unless you choose to live your life & make your choices based on FEAR...a sad, bad choice to make, don't you think?

No offense Barry but, can you see how that ^^ non approach (avoidant) might be like a partial suicide? OR maybe be seen as punitive? Your kids are already losing so much and your main job is damage control, for you & for THEM too...

Your kids' needs must outweigh your fears and discomfort. The sooner, the better. TRULY.

that I haven't wanted to spend any money on anything (fun activities with the kids etc) until I know what's going to happen.


You think that^^ is a good reason Not to see your kids? Barry, you are now officially wallowing - and you must snap yourself out of that quagmire. Avail yourself of the resources around you asap, please!

PS -- no one knows what is going to happen. Not one of us.


I will add here that W has not stopped going out (not with the kids - she hasn't done anything with them), or spending money on herself. She doesn't need to worry about money - only when Barry will be able to come up with a way to get more.


Can you stop looking in the rear view mirror for status checks on her? When did that ever improve your situation?

I know it was a stupid thing to do but I sat in front of my W and sobbed my heart out the other night and she litteraly didn't care. Honestly, my W has always been the sort of person to offer comfort to a tramp in the street if she saw someone upset.


Why do You think you chose to demonstrate your grief and needs to her, again?
Why are you now "interpreting" her reaction?

Sounds like she was super uncomfortable (not necessarily guilt ridden either).

OR maybe she felt manipulated b/c clearly you did have expectations of her when she saw your tears. IF sobbing in front of her was a test, I'd say stop testing, but I have a feeling you "need" to keep doing this but I don't know why.


IF it was a desperate attempt to get her back, then you must like cheeseless tunnels. Crying to her has not once given you what you wanted. The most you have begged out of her was the concession that some of the marriage had been good...

Barry maybe you can explore this behavior with your IC. The imploring and exhortations of her to return in the face of her evident certainty that she does Not want to return, seems self destructive.

Barry, this behavior consistently makes you feel worse.

Man, if this is not new behavior of yours then you need to really look at it as at least one reason for you being here as a LBH. (i.e. repeating same behaviors but expecting a different result).

IF it is new behavior, then go back to who you were before.


She's wrecked the only life I ever wanted and I'll never forget that. Maybe one day I'll forgive her...but forget - no chance


Wow, Barry, please Stop the blame game.

Truly If I thought it was helping you detach, maybe I'd indulge it. But it's Not helping you, at all.

Seems indulgent of you to use your wife's rejection as an excuse to blame her for how you live your life, forever. And for not seeing your kids more...

Do you know how many men on these boards do not get to see their kids except 2 weekends a month? OR how many men and women have their kids taken away from them, when their WAS move FAR away?

When you are operating in fear & self pity- you are NOT operating in faith, hope or love.

Do you think, looking back now, that you may have made your happiness HER responsibility?

B/c you certainly are now.



I respectfully dissagree Mozza when you say that I've not been MADE to feel like this. I understand your point in that it's my reaction to it that's the issue but I wouldn't be in the position to make any kind of reaction if W wasn't doing it!!! I'm normally prety good at rolling with the punches in life but this one feels too much like a knock-out blow.

None of this ^^ is new. Let's be fair and objective for a moment..

Given the givens, she has been almost as well behaved as any WAW can be, and you have conceded as much in the past.

I know It stinks to hear how "lucky" you are at a time like this. Believe me, I heard how "Lucky" i was to have a profession and healthy kids, etc;... but if you need reminders, then take the time to read a few lousy situations on this board, and you'll know it is true.

Of course it hurts to be rejected. We know! Dear God, how we know...

but still we must all do a few things for others or ourselves, even when our heart is breaking.

We/You must keep the wounded ego & injured pride at bay. Stop blaming your w for You not seeing your kids b/c You don't feel happy enough...that is on you.
See them asap and as much as you can b/c their needs are higher now, than ever.

Yes, you must step up to the plate and take care of and comfort THEM. And stop looking over your shoulder to compete or compare with your w...for your own sake and for your children's.


When I spoke of feeling like a sham, it's not that I come here and write things that I think you all want to hear so that you'll send me away with a pat on the back etc. I was trying to say (badly maybe) that not just on this forum but in "the real world" too, I've been trying to "fake it till I make it", or act "as if" I'm accepting all of this. That was also working up to a point, I HAD started to accept it.

If I hadn't been stopped in my tracks by the finance issues, I would have filed already.
The momentum behind my progress came to a screeching halt then.

That's fine, we understand. But as far as I can tell, she did nothing to make it worse

so she's not really relevant to this additional bump in the road. Turning every obstacle or bad event into something "She caused" b/c she left you, will get you nowhere fast. And aren't you tired of feeling stuck?

You need to get back on the GAL/DETACHMENT horse and start riding...


I'm still in limbo as of today, but I just wanted to say thank you to you all for your concern.
I'll keep you up to date with any changes.

Barry.

Please do keep us informed. AND PLEASE check out the TED TALK videos on youtube (Amy Cuddy and Shawn Achor if I haven't already said their names) on creating authentic happiness in our own lives.

Instead of waiting to "Feel better" and THEN doing something...

we can begin behaving in new ways and THEN feel better...

And see the website for Essential Experience in case you come across the pond, and or see if the "Life spring" workshop has something in the UK.

Good luck Barry!

PS Yes I know 2 family members who divorced and remarried their former spouses a few years later and yes they were happier the second time around.

In both cases, each spouse improved as partners and made changes.

I'm not sure about who made what move back towards remarrying, but I don't believe any of them expected to reconcile, when they divorced.