You are getting great advice from everyone here on your thread, and I agree with everything they've said. Make no mistake, your wife IS wayward. She is displaying all of the characteristics -- resentment, rebellion, disrespect -- that Sandi talks about in her classic threads.
I also agree with the "NMMNG" book recommendation. I can GUARANTEE you that your "soft/nice" approach is a huge TURN-OFF for your wife, and the very first thing you need to do is to work at re-building ATTRACTION.
A woman cannot love a man she does not respect. Sleeping on the floor next to your bed? Really??? (((shakes my head)))
Time to find your inner "alpha man." I know it's not easy, and like you I was a classic "pleaser"/"Mr. Nice Guy" personality at heart (still am). I have had to learn to set (and enforce) strong boundaries, and to stop supplicating to my wife and treating her like a princess. It can be done (today our marriage is stronger than ever, 8 years later!)
What makes you so sure that your W isn't in A? In reading your post, I am pretty certain that she is in an A.
Originally Posted By: Ripe
Leon01, I have read Sandi2's post on Wayward Wifes. I don't think it applies in my case. My wife is not having an affair, so the toughness Sandi2 advocates for those type of wives does not apply, I think.
You might take a look at my sitch/story. It also started in June 2014. Yours is a little different with her still living under the same roof (my WAW left in July). But that far from rules out an A. From June until December, I was positive she was not having an A. I even hired a PI in August who didn't find anything. But she was in an R with OM that entire time.
Regarding depression, my WAW also suffers from it. She has since she was a teenager. I also attributed this as to why she left, as opposed to her having an A. I still think I was somewhat right, that her depression played a huge role in her decision about our M. But it turns out she was so miserable, she turned to OM for relief, because those initial chemicals of love are so powerful and relieving. Perhaps if she'd been mentally healthy, she would have decided on marriage counseling and really trying to work through our problems. But that is hypothetical and in the past.
I've also learned that I can't cure or nurture my WAW's depression. That is her journey. I am now a cheerleader for her, even as I'm no longer hoping for our M. She even confided with me that she attempted suicide last fall during this crisis. If you still have hope, that's great. Keep your hope! But I'll share the words uRworthy shared with me once:
Originally Posted By: uRworthy
You can have hope. Nothing wrong with that. You can have it. You just dont want to live in it, ya know?
And finally, whether she's having an A or not, she is wayward and she needs to see a masculine, independent, strong man to eventually begin to be re-attracted to you. But don't focus on re-attracting her, even if that's the only thing your heart desires right now. You need to detach for your own sake, for your own benefit. She will see through you doing anything to impress her. Just DETACH for YOU! The good news is that what will be best for you if the M does end is also what gives you the best chance to reconcile! So let go of the fear of loss and detach.
Last edited by Card29; 03/26/1504:19 PM.
Me 38, WAW 30 D11 (former marriage) S2 T 8 years M 3 years BD 8/20/23 S 8/20/23
Leon01, I have read Sandi2's post on Wayward Wifes. I don't think it applies in my case. My wife is not having an affair, so the toughness Sandi2 advocates for those type of wives does not apply, I think.
As the others have said, it applies! Following Sandi2's advice (and "letting her go") has been great for my sanity and well being. I'm sleeping and eating better. My close friends and family have noticed. I felt guilty at first, but I got over it.
Dear All, Thank you for all your replies. It really means something to me.
Originally Posted By: Mozza
What you need to do now is to find your center and your boundaries and show them to your W.
Mozza, this is what I am doing right now. I am slowly finding myself again, but the setting the boundaries issue is more problematic. I know now I will never allow my W to shout at me as she did. Never again. But I still struggle when she asks me something and I know that my refusal will not please her. As I said before, for me it has been much easier to be passive – that is, not doing by my own initiative something I know she would like – than actively confronting her.
Books. Life is so funny. One year ago I was pretty sure I would never read a self-improvement book in my life. Right now I devour them. Mozza, thank you for your suggestion on the No More Mr Nice Guy book. Coincidentally, it was on the top of my list and I was the one I would start reading after finishing the one I am currently reading (The 5 Love Languages). I will start it this weekend.
OM I am pretty sure my wife is not having an affair, but do I know her anymore?? I did not put great weight on her defending adulterers because what she said goes more into something she has always defended. That is, that in life you should follow your heart and dreams. So, if you are in love for someone you should pursue this, even if you are married.
Sleeping on the floor. I wanted to cry at my blindness when you all pointed out what sleeping on the ground represents. I have decided to take some action and tell her I want to go back to my bed. I will not do this right now, though. Since I started DB’ing things have improved considerably. When I say this I am thinking about the baby steps MWD mentions in her book. Just three days ago I was talking about our kids and how one of them has improved in a certain area when she told me I was doing a great job with them. This is the first compliment she addresses me in, say, three years. Also, we go for weekends abroad quite often. Mid February we went for a long weekend and booked an hotel room with two double bedrooms, as we have always done. Upon arrival, I told one of my kids I wanted to sleep with him and to the other he would sleep with his mother. So, that first night I slept with my kid in a sofa-bed, which was not very comfortable. The second day I told my W I wanted to sleep in the bed because I deserved some rest. She didn’t oppose, so for two days we slept on the same bed, although quite far apart from each other. Beginning of March we went out for another weekend. Immediately after arriving at the hotel room (two single beds and one double bed), each kid chose his own bed. My wife immediately said we would sleep together. In one week we will again go abroad. I am expecting for this to happen again. Therefore, I do not want to bring the issue of me sleeping on the floor up for discussion right now, but will do that after returning from leave.
Me43 W39 M 12y,T 15y S09,S07 Bomb Jun14 Sleeping separately Jan/Mar15 Share bed Mar/May15 Reconcile Jun15 Aug15 W sais D will happen D told to kids Sept15 W moved out with kids 01 October15
You're still not getting it. You don't ask for your wife's PERMISSION to do this, nor do you make a grand pronouncement (waiting to see if she approves or disapproves before acting). You just DO it. If she says "what do you think you're doing in the bed?" just say "I'm much more comfortable here, and I decided that I'm no longer sleeping on the floor."
Why are you so afraid of your wife? Her bluster can't harm you.
Ripe - You need to read NMMNG much more than T5LL at this stage. You've crossed into a different land when your W gave up on you. In a M, being nice and saying I love you are helpful. Where you are now, not so much. As Starsk309 said on sandi2's thread for the LBH, it's important that you start early and strong if you want to have an impact on your W.
There are a lot of people like you around here and many have found a path to self-respect and self-affirmation that inspires love. Among the newcomers, Barry and Closer2 are similar to you and I encourage you to follow them (Maybell too but she's a woman and much farther along). The advice they receive, the mistakes they make also apply to you.
Cadet makes a good point: you need to realize that you don't have much to lose. Whether upset or nice, your W is leaving you. This will take months or years to fix, if at all. Get in the right mindset, detach from the immediate outcome. Read the success stories at the top of my thread.
It seems that a lot of newcomers have a hard time understanding that DBing is not about tricking the spouse into the M, like some pick-up artist with sleek lines. It's about giving W a reason to be in the M by giving them a man they can love. Work on yourself if you want a shot at saving your M.
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
Mozza is correct. NMMNG is more important right now than T5LL. I have read both and I'm rereading them both. You'll learn so much from NMMNG.
The Covert Contracts really woke me up. I had been using Covert Contacts all my life. If I would do something for her, like cleaning the garage or washing her car and I would expect something in return (typically sex). I would do stuff all day and if I didn't get what I wanted in return, I would pout and basically be a baby. Eventually, she began to resent me if I did anything nice for her and I resented her for because she didn't honor my "covert contract". Finally, I stopped doing nice things and she totally shut down. That was the downward spiral.
Read NMMNG. You need to get some respect back and build some attraction. If she doesn't respect you, you're not going to be able to turn this around and if there's not already an OM, there will be one soon.
M:42 W:43 T:14 M:10 S:9 D:5 W filed 12/22/14 EA 12/31/14 PA 4/10/15 D final 5/13/15
Ripe, the woman you have described as your W, will take a passive man, slice and dice him.......chew him up, and then spit him out.
Perhaps you saw the DB advice you previously received from your nice guy look out tower. Plainly speaking, you cannot nice your W back into feelings of respect for you. Her viewpoint of what you call your "nice guy" ways, is so far removed from yours.
Having a good heart, being kind, selfless, etc., is not a bad thing. Being a passive man in a M to a WW, however, can be a very bad thing. You are the only one who can change your passivity.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
