Thanks, Burger, it is great to know this thread is helpful.
And you too, Alpha. I hope you read my response to Mozza earlier about the "script".
Quote:
May I ask, at what point should one believe what they are being told? I ask because isn't there the chance that although it has been said many times before by many WWs, a particular WW may be right, sincere, and determined in her speech and subsequent actions.
Oh I'm sure there are some things said out of sincerity at that moment, b/c her emotions are leading her all the way. She can be sincerely wrong! She may even be determined, in her WW mindset. She may see it as "right" in her viewpoint. However, bear in mind, she is not being logical/reasonable; she has an extorted viewpoint; she is creating a fantasy; she needs to feel justified; and, she needs you to take the fall for the breakup. However, none of it makes it truth. You have to stay balanced enough that you are able to distinguish what are her emotions talking and what is real truth.
Do you know what is the real truth in your marital history? B/c you cannot measure it by what she says. She may give little pieces here and there, but mostly her accounts are stretched to the outrageous. The H is so shocked and hurt by her words (script) and many simple take it as truth b/c he has had to reason to doubt her before now. She does sound sincere! She does sound determine!
So, you go through the painful self examination and see there is just cause for some feelings she has, and b/c of your own feelings (discussed in my last post) it would be easy for you to believe every word out of her mouth. At the least, you begin to doubt what you knew as true about the MR you had. Am I close?
Just b/c someone else has said the same words does cause it to be a lie. Script does not necessarily mean lies, it just means what she is saying.....when she says it....and the way she says it is extremely common with the WW. Take that fact into consideration.
How do you know at what point you can believe what she tells you? I am not sure in which context you meant, so I will assume you mean as what she says regarding to her plans for the future, b/c the past is in the past and you have a good idea what is true about it. The present and what she speaks of being the future should be based on her actions, behavior and attitude lining up with her words.
For example, If you have a W who says she wants back in the M.........yet she is uncooperative in doing what it takes to reconcile, and her bad attitude is obvious, and she continue with bad behavior........ then be assured, you cannot believe her words.
If you have read what I posted about a process the WW goes through, perhaps you will understand you really cannot place your complete trust in her words. Her actions, behavior, and attitude tells the real truth.
Have I even come close to answering your question?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Guilt is huge. I know all too well the things I did that helped set the stage for my current sitch. I was NOT the husband she needed a lot of the time. Classic case of self-centeredness and immaturity on my part. I've made no bones about the fact that I went straight from home to college to marriage without really ever growing up.
Her spew is often peppered with truth. The truth would sting, and prevent me from taking the strong stands earlier that I should have.
Sandi, your point about paying more attention to her actions than her words was right on. It actually gives me some hope...my W still talks a negative game a lot of the time...feeling lost, disconnected, feeling unattracted to me, etc., but her actions tell me that she's trying to reconnect.
Last edited by NH115; 03/25/1507:44 PM.
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
I can honestly say that I never once considered myself responsible for my wife's affair. I found it to be a selfish, cowardly and destructive decision on her part, my own contributions to the pre-affair dysfunction of our marriage notwithstanding.
I beat myself up for many things (like being too naive and stupid to see the warning signs initially), but being responsible for her decision to bed another man wasn't one of them.
There's a difference between feeling guilty for setting the stage and feeling guilty for the affair, without a doubt. I draw a heavy line at her actions once she decided that getting with OM was a reasonable option. I'm not responsible for anything she did with OM....events leading up to that, yeah, I feel quite responsible for a lot of those. That's where I beat myself up too, having been too self-centered to see the disconnect happening... that started long before she even knew OM.
I see the line very clearly. W, not so much.
I felt that something was off for a couple of years, but I didn't have the words and, to be honest, I was too much of a nice guy to sit her down and try to clear the air. I even had an odd premonition the weekend before BD. She was out of town with some girlfriends, and the thought struck me out of the blue that she was going to have something serious to discuss with me when she got back. No clue what, just a feeling.
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
Thanks Starsky, I was hoping you would join in and give your perspective, since some of the LBH'S seem to be feeling they are responsible for their W's affair.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
You know no matter what your transgressions were, no matter how bad you messed up,
YOU did not cause the affair/infidelity!
I think most LBS's are codependent and tbh this is the area that they need to work on the most. Being told what to do and when to do it, is not healthy behavior. We are now adults and get to choose the life that we want to live. It takes a long time to understand that.
You know no matter what your transgressions were, no matter how bad you messed up,
YOU did not cause the affair/infidelity!
I think most LBS's are codependent and tbh this is the area that they need to work on the most. Being told what to do and when to do it, is not healthy behavior. We are now adults and get to choose the life that we want to live. It takes a long time to understand that.
Amen to that! It's a lesson I'm learning very slowly. I never really believed I caused the A, but codependency has been a huge and paralyzing issue for me in the past. Still is, sometimes.
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
You know no matter what your transgressions were, no matter how bad you messed up,
YOU did not cause the affair/infidelity!
I think most LBS's are codependent and tbh this is the area that they need to work on the most. Being told what to do and when to do it, is not healthy behavior. We are now adults and get to choose the life that we want to live. It takes a long time to understand that.
The other common mistake newly-bombed LBSs (usually LBHs) make is that they want to take any spin, spew or even truth from their wayward spouse into account, wrap it up with all of their own guilt, and then IMMEDIATELY set about to trying to "fix" the broken marriage.
IT DOESN'T WORK WHEN THEY ARE WAYWARD.
It takes PATIENCE, to continue to learn and grow and work on your own GAL, 180s and doing what you can to attract them back . . . knowing that you will have PLENTY (weeks, months, YEARS even) of time later, during the PIECING phase, to show her how you've changed.
You try and do it now, and it's going to come across as weakness and supplication, and that AIN'T attractive to her, and it'll kill YOUR self-esteem.
