I'm going to sleep on it and say something tomorrow. What are your thoughts on S? Should I push for a controlled trial S ( no dating, wear rings) or just leave that part alone and not even bring it up?
I wouldn't push for ANYTHING. Let any solutions come from HER.
You're letting her go. You know only that "this isn't working for me."
Rzrback, I am late with this post, but I hope you will not push for a controlled S. By doing so, it tells her you are still wanting to control her life and that you are not letting go of her. I know how scary it must be to take that risk, but I think it will go very badly to insist on no dating.
She must see this step to S as you leaving her. Not seeing you standing on the sideline, coaching her in what to do and not do. Don't hold on to the rope, just drop it in the dirt. B/c she is not going to honor any boundary at this point. She initiated this round of fights b/c she wants an excuse to get out and be free to do her own thing.
If you insist on a controlled S, she will want to go straight for D.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Oh my dear Rzr...(((Rzr)))...I know this is all so tough for you. I feel so badly for you, but my thoughts and prayers are with you. You are getting great advice and I really can't add anything to it, but know that I'm rooting for you from South Arkansas.
For what it is worth, though, my XH was the WAS, when he did leave, it got easier for me, made detachment easier, so maybe S isn't such a bad deal. I don't wish D on anyone, but in my case, my X was dead-set on it and there was no going back and now that he is out, my life is easier without having to worry about what will set him off or what he's thinking or whatever.
Hang in there and keep reading all this wonderful advice.
Me 52, H53 Bomb drop 9/29/2014 Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014 Marriage #2 12/31/2019 5 adult (step)daughters (3 from XH's first marriage, 2 from current H's previous relationships) 6 grandkids
I am sorry that W just won't let this up....so sorry.
I am with Starsky....it's HIGH time for you to pull out the Robox speech. Get out of W's face. Be done with "this M can be saved, can be better, blah blah."
Also would suggest that you move out. Yes, we usually advise against moving out. In your sitch, you need to remove yourself from a toxic environment and let W see for herself that it's not YOU.
You may ask, "but what about OM?" I say that it is all on her if W runs to the OM. Frankly, you deserve SO MUCH better than what you're receiving now.
Do you think the WAS will be attracted to someone who wouldn't move on with their life and would just stay and wait till they came back to them? Is that attractive? When you move on with your life, when you show them that you value your life just as much as you valued there life, it shows them you're a strong, confident person - those are attractive traits. When you stop holding on to them and let go and move on with your life and whatever that brings you including possibly dating new people, it shows the WAS that you are no longer a backup plan or option in their eyes, if you stay behind and wait for them to come back to you, they will always know that they can take their time coming back if they even want to come back, you give them the power of choice over your life, again not attractive. When you remove yourself as an option in their life, they don't have that choice anymore, you've taken back control of your life which is attractive because think about the qualities you're displaying with this action: confident, secure, ambitious, taking a leadership role in your life again, etc. You're not the backup plan anymore for them, the WAS is then faced with the reality that you aren't there waiting anymore, you're moving on with your life, and if their new relationship isn't working out and they were considering coming back, this generates fear of loss on their part and makes them reconsider their current actions.
That's DB'ing.
What isn't DB'ing?
Hanging in there, writing long letters & emails, text message "terrorism" (where you text them non stop), begging, pleading, grovelling for love, giving them books and articles and telling them they should feel different and they should love you, telling them that they took marriage vows and they have to stick it out even if the marriage is horrible in their point of view, moving out of the master bedroom, moving out of the home to "give them space", being sad and acting depressed, etc. etc. etc.
None of these things is attractive, none of these things is going to bring your WAS back home.
Is the method that I'm describing fool proof, NO. Is it 100% successful, NO. You show me any divorce busting method that is 100% successful all the time, it doesn't exist.
Some relationships can't be fixed for whatever reason, the other person may be at a point in their life where they really want something new & different regardless of how shortsighted that point of view may be.
But they moved on with their life. They had an affair and found someone new. And how did you respond when they did these things? You started working on yourself to show them that you could change, on top of that maybe you started working out and buying new clothes to make yourself look more attractive physically. You started getting a life to show them that you're an attractive individual with options in your life. You did all these things when they moved on and chose to end the relationship. You did all these things because they moved on. They discovered they had options and when a person has options they become more attractive to other people. When a WAS leaves their marriage and starts dating other people, maybe having an affair with someone new and starts a new relationship all the while knowing that they have you in the background should they decide to ever come back, they know they have options. That makes them attractive to you because you were busting your butt trying to get them back and then trying different techniques to get their attention, etc.
In my opinion, why not try doing some of the same things the WAS does, it certainly works on you and every other LBS on these forums so there seems to be a common effect being displayed here. The person who leaves makes the decision to leave on their own. When you originally started seeing each other and dating, you BOTH chose to do that, you would BOTH choose to go out to restaurants, movies, parks, do activities together, etc. When you considered getting married, you BOTH chose to do this and planned out how it would happen. When a person leaves a marriage to pursue other people, dating, have an affair, etc. THEY are making the CHOICE on their own, they aren't making that choice with you. They are taking all the power in the relationship and choosing to do what they want and the LBS is left behind powerless. How do you change that dynamic? How do you reclaim some of the power in the relationship? How do you make a WAS reconsider their actions?
FKAF, for what it's worth, in my own situation, things only turned around when I took back control of my life and took back the power in the relationship. I tried everything else. I moved out of the master bedroom and then the home because she asked me to because she wanted "space", I wrote letters, emails, shared my feelings, showed my wife how vulnerable I was, I begged her to go to counseling, I was needy, insecure, wussy like, bought gifts and generally jumped through every f!@#$%* hoop there was to show my wife that I loved her and wanted her back. When the WAS has that much control in a relationship, they will never be attracted to the LBS and they will never be motivated to come back. Marriage vows are just words and when a WAS has that thought process in place and "runs the show", the only thing you can do is to shake up their reality. In the end this is what is working in my situation and I'm the one now that has the hard time wanting her back after this whole process, that's the danger of detachment, I reclaimed my life back, my eyes are open now, and I'm not sure I want someone like that back in my life who would have done all these things to me, my wife now wants me to go to counseling, she wants to move back home, she talks to me everyday: in person, by text, by email, she does favors for me, she is sorry and is starting to show remorse for her actions, she wants me to forget the past and wants us to move on to a "great new" relationship for us and our family, she tells me that "people make mistakes", she tells me that she "held her family and friends in higher priority than her husband and that she knows now that is wrong".
She didn't see any of these issues as problems when she originally dropped the "bomb". She was content to live on planet "fruitopia" while she was in control and living a great life. When I hit rock bottom, reached my personal threshold of tolerance and that switch inside me finally flicked on and said "she's never going to change and she's hurting me and she knows it and still doesn't care, why am I still jumping through all these hoops to get her back?", that's when I moved back home and experienced "batshitcrazy" (and it was an experience), I slept in my bed in the master bedroom and packed all her things and told her that I wanted her to move out, instead of taking the custody scheduled she so generously gave me, I got lawyers involved and got shared joint custody, I became more active in my own life, I made her responsible for her own life (the term around here is "she can wear her big girl panties"), she was basically living an easy life on my dime, what would prompt her to change that if she was allowed to cake eat for as long as she wanted and I was feeding her that cake? A free ride compliments of me and I realized that and I didn't want that anymore so I decided things would change.
But that's just me, that's where I am right now. Life is really good and it's good because I know now that I'm responsible for living a great life and for a long time during the unhappy portion of our marriage I was miserable and taken for granted and I never took care of myself.
Now I have options, now I won't settle and my wife knows that. Yes I'm a bit of a hard a$$ as well as being a smart a$$, I'm working towards that middle ground for me. I'm a great dad and I make sure my kids have a great life, they didn't ask for this situation and although a part of me wants to give them their family back I can't just be married for the kids, I got married for me first and I want a great relationship and my wife is in personal counseling right now for herself and she's making real changes in her life and I just want to be sure that before I re-enter married life again if that's what I choose to do, it's for the right reasons and that a relationship will be loving, caring, fun, enjoyable and maintainable because regardless of what anyone says, marriage is hard work and I don't care if that doesn't sexy, that's reality. Married people get lazy with each other and take each other for granted, you have to consciously treat each other better, you have to make time for dating which means getting a sitter for the kids, you have to put excitement in the mix, you have to travel, you have to do things together but also make sure you maintain a personal individual life as well.
FTR, I don't believe in ALL of that (the whole "dating others" thing is an intensely personal decision, and one that I only did upon mutual agreement with my wife once we were separated), but it does give you a good flavor for what is involved with the whole "letting them go" technique.
Thank you Wonka, Starsky, Sandi, Dawn, Toots, T0324. You guys basically ran to my rescue yesterday and today.
I was treated to some more spew last night; I was amazed at my ability to not lose my s***, but I kept it calm. She came down off the anger train last night. This morning though, she was right back on it. That's when I knew.
It's done. I told her it was time; this situation is no longer working and we need to get out of each other's hair. I said three months to start, since that's the shortest apartment lease I can realistically get. Thank goodness I live in a college town, the landlords are a little more flexible around here. I agree that in this case I need to be the one to move out. I want the girls to be with their mom, and that'll be less disruptive to their lives.
I didn't explicitly mention dating; My only expectation is that we still go to MC; otherwise we live our own lives.
That shut off the spew. She's still very much in "poor me" mode, but it feels like the tension has unwound a bit. I think she's secretly relieved. To tell the truth, so am I.
We're going to sleep on it this weekend, tell the MC on Monday, and then start planning out the logistics. I'm going to watch and wait this weekend and see if anything sinks in for her.
Last edited by Rzrback; 03/20/1503:34 PM.
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
We're going to sleep on it this weekend, tell the MC on Monday, and then start planning out the logistics. I'm going to watch and wait this weekend and see if anything sinks in for her. I'm going to go out and live my life this weekend, and she can do whatever. It's time I started enjoying myself again.
