Claire learning to accept

[claire7]

K-Girl,

He's said things like "he doesn't see a married future for us". We have a mediator-- we've met with her a few times and worked out a parenting agreement (which he doesn't even think we need because we can work things out 'ad hoc'.). He now says we should sign the draft parenting agreement and move to lawyers to work out the financial settlement, because he doesn't see how mediation will help with that, and he doesn't understand how a neutral financial advisor will help, either, because she's not a lawyer.

[KGirl]

Re: having a clear conscience and trying everything you could - yeah, I get that. I wonder sometimes "maybe if I hadn't moved out? maybe if I had done X? or Y? or Z?" But honestly, when it comes down to it.. you can do EVERYTHING you can but it still takes the involvement of the other person and them wanting to be in the R for it to work out. You ultimately can't control what they decide or the choices they make. Heck, my STBX said "maybe we could have gone to counseling and made things work.. I don't know.. I just wasn't really interested in trying." Sometimes that's what it comes down to, as silly as it may seem to us or others.

Re: their view that we are unloveable and they can do better... I dunno, I feel like when someone's attitude or what they say off the bat is "I can do better" (meaning the WAS's right away, not us after we've been through this whole ordeal.. that's different)... I don't think it means what we're interpreting it to mean, and the fact that they are that cocky/presumptuous/whatever isn't going to bring the types of quality people to them that we'd like to have around us. Better for them may just mean someone that is more suited to them, not necessarily the quality that we're thinking. Several weeks before BD (at Thanksgiving!) my STBX said something rude to me and my in-laws said "you should really treat her nicely.. she puts up with a lot from you... you won't find anyone else who will do that" and he said, in front of me, "that's not true, I could definitely find someone else." What he really meant was not better in our sense of the concept, but someone who is more tolerant, less opinionated, and will go along with whatever he says and does. Oh, and is OK with him putting friends first. So forget about whether he'll find someone "better" or not or whether you will, but maybe think about it as a better "fit"?

I don't know as much about the lawyers vs. financial advisor, we didn't really need to do any of that, but maybe someone else has thoughts.. or, if YOU have thoughts (it sounds like you are thinking a financial advisor would be helpful?) now seems to be your chance to voice them. What have you got to lose at this point, besides the fact that NOT speaking up could result in you losing money, etc.?

[claire7]

His thoughts:

Like I said, I will attend some sessions with a counselor or therapist, but am not attending with the intention of pursuing a reconciliation. You alluded to this the other night. I've thought long and hard about it, for many months, and I just don't have the necessary feelings for that. I know you don't understand it. I don't know that there is something I can do to make you understand it. I'm very sorry for that. But I am open to discussing ways for us to improve communication, carve a more amicable path forward, find ways to give the benefit of the doubt more frequently, figure out a way that we can be friends in the long term.

Friends? I don't think so.

[labug]

You don't know yet, let it go for now.

I'll come back and catch up on your thread. I did skim it a few days ago and nothing jumped out at me. That's good.

[labug]

So... a bit of spew from WAH today . I need validation help.

He was picking up D on an unseasonably warm day. (It's been FRIGID here for weeks, but pretty warm today). Still, she had on a couple of light layers and I said, "Is she going to wear a jacket at all?" He rolled his eyes at me as if I am the most controlling, over-protective mom on the planet. (Ok, I used to be, but nowadays I don't say a WORD about his parenting.) I called him out on rolling his eyes at me.

A half hour later, I got a 3 paragraph email:

I'm sorry I rolled my eyes. I know you are sensitive to that and I should avoid it.

I'm sensitive to being questioned as caregiver. Of all the things that you may choose to no longer trust about me, as you have mentioned, this seems least warranted and necessary.

D4 is the single most important thing in my life. I think you know that. Generally, on almost everything about how we raise her, I defer to your opinion and am more than respectful of it. I wish some of the finer details didn't have to be debated.

I'm supposed to validate. I know. But seriously? Because I asked a question about a jacket?? This seems so petty and manipulative. To me, it's like he goes on the offensive to make me feel too timid to ever question anything. And that doesn't feel ok. Do I really have to validate this cr@p? The more I think about him, his lack of R skills, his lack of self-reflection... I do not want this man at all.

Could really use some feedback on this, if anyone is listening.
Thanks.

I'll start here.

Why ask the question about the jacket? I know we're moms, these thing just roll out unbidden but really think about this.

What's worst case if she doesn't have a jacket?

Where else does this tendency, and it is control, pop up?

[claire7]

You're right, labug. I know I have control issues. (For the record, my STBX does too, which is not really relevant to ME and my work.)

I have come a lonnnng way in this area. I am pretty hands off when it comes to his parenting. Seriously.

And I know it's a button pusher for him.

As I look back on this moment (and his response to send me a three paragraph email about how mad he was about it), I realize that a) sure, this tendency of mine still does come up from time to time. I'm a mom. I want my kid to be healthy and safe. But I am not being hard on myself for this particular instance because what I said ("are you going to take a jacket at all?") was really not so bad. And b) his response reveals how little work he has done on himself. If he's still allowing a little comment from me to get him all worked up like that, it says a lot more about him, and makes a future with him look bleak.

That's where I'm at right now. I see my role in that interaction, but I also see how a future with him is not possible--certainly not at the moment-- because holding myself up to a standard of perfection is unreasonable.

I hope this doesn't sound defensive. I totally hear what you are saying and am mindful of that flaw in myself. But this moment also gave me an epiphany-- he is not able to change, and I don't really like who he is, so I'm done. I've made a choice. And even if I end up alone, it's better than feeling like I have to walk on eggshells around someone who gets bent out of shape if i suggest our daughter brings her coat in the wintertime, ya know?

Thanks so much for checking in.

[labug]

It is defensive. But we all try to protect ourselves in that way. It's a part of the process. I was such a defensive prig when I first came here and people called me on it often. I didn't like it much (surprise!) but it opened my mind and my heart.

My defensive nature didn't just exhibit itself with my H. It was there in all my Rs to a greater or lesser extent.

Several times you bring up your H and what he's doing or not doing. Those things don't have to drive your response. This really isn't about your R with your H, it's about your R with you.

Learning to be who you want to be.

It's daily work for me to keep control monster at bay. It gets easier but I'm often asking myself, did anyone ask me for help? will it be a catastrophe if I don't intervene? what's my motive here?

I'll admit that many times my motive is, I want to be right!

If after checking yourself you decide the jacket is still a good idea, how about, H, let me grab her jacket for you. If he declines, say OK, have fun. If she gets really cold, he'll deal with it however he deals with these things. If she's cranky, maybe next time he'll rethink that jacket. He has lessons to learn. Let him learn them.

If you respond to this, try to do it from your POV completely, what you can do, leaving out what he did or didn't do.

A little exercise I learned from my IC: State what you don't want in a R.

Now turn that around to what you want.

Then address what of that you control:
eg. I want a R in which I'm heard.
To have a R in which I'm heard, I must be present. I must listen and hear.

Good luck, Claire. You have come a long way.

[claire7]

Thanks labug. Where would I be without folks like you and this board. No one else calls me on my sh!+.

Another day, another annoying interaction with H.

Trying to curb my defensiveness and anger towards him. Really really really trying to find a way to validate his feelings. It's tough because I feel like he is a bit of a bully towards me. So I don't want to reward that.

I got a bit of spew because I didn't respond to his email about clarifying the schedule quickly enough. (And also he revealed that he's anxious about having our D for 5 consecutive days without our nanny to help b/c she will be on vacation.)

I have so little patience for him. I keep missing chances to be easy breezy. I keep letting my buttons get pushed.

Gotta regroup and enjoy the evening with my D.

[claire7]

If you respond to this, try to do it from your POV completely, what you can do, leaving out what he did or didn't do.

A little exercise I learned from my IC: State what you don't want in a R.

Now turn that around to what you want.

Then address what of that you control:
eg. I want a R in which I'm heard.
To have a R in which I'm heard, I must be present. I must listen and hear.

Labug, I re-read your reply more closely and realized that I didn't respond to ^^^ this.

So, I'm thinking on it.

I want a R in which I'm heard.
To have a R in which I'm heard, I must be present. I must listen and hear.

I cannot change who he is. I cannot change who he is. I cannot change who he is.
I CAN change me. I CAN change me. I CAN change me.

I want to be the kind of person who can hear, and understand, and validate someone else's feelings. I want to be the kind of person who doesn't have to "Prove" she's right.

I want to be the kind of person who can find the balance between being able to validate someone else's feelings, and acknowledge her own mistakes while also setting healthy boundaries and not be bullied or disrespected.

I want to have a R in which I feel loved. I want to be with someone out of love, not fear. In order to have that kind of R, I must be able to show love and confidence.

I can't change whether he gets pissed at me, or whether he blames me for all of this. I CAN choose to not take the bait, however. I hope to get better at doing that in the moment. I hope to get better at staying mindful and not letting my 'fight or flight' response kick in so that I can't think of how to respond calmly.

(labug, I hope I am getting on the right track).

[Mozza]

Hello Claire7,

I like what you write on other threads, including mine, but for some reason I haven't been following your sitch closely. However, I'm thinking of starting now because I feel I might be able to contribute something. I just read the recent episodes about the lawyer and the jacket and two or three things jumped at me. I could understand your H better than I understood your reaction. It might be a little challenging for you and sometimes I can be tough without meaning to, so first I'd like to ask you if this is something you'd be interested in. Don't feel that you have to at all. I've not read your sitch from the beginning so my input might be of limited value. You already have good support and it's great that Labug recently started following you.