MCS, thank you for always responding right when I feel like I'm about to jump off a cliff. You have a very...calming way of posting...hard to describe, very good at validating =)
TLEE,
No problem. That's why we are all here. I think you are like me, in that, I get most out of sorts when I start to think me, my W, my sitch, etc. are unique and I can't figure out what to do (or not do) next. On the boards here, since everyone is going through the same thing, I find that its comforting.
Also, I work with about 50% ex-military. I know that if you've been through Ranger school, you can handle a boatload of stress. Just think of it the way you were trained. I would guess 90% of what the instructors did made no logical sense when you were going through it, but when you look back you can put the pieces together of how (mostly, anyway) each piece had a purpose to get you to the end. Using that analogy, that's where faith comes in. I have no clue 'why' each incident is the way it is in our sitches, but I know that I'll look back and it will hopefully mostly make sense.
M:36 W:37 T: 15 M:11 S6 D5 BD: 8/10/14 IDLY: 8/12/14 S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids) D Mentioned: 10/15/14 Confronted about OM: 10/15/14 EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13 She filed: 8/15 (not final)
Thanks MC- I actually was jus talking to my chaplain about that, that what I think is unique..is truly....not. So it definitely helps and to be quite honest, he (my chaplain) is having a hard time figuring out why and how I (we- all of us on this board) can do what we are doing. And its very clear how important WAW's are to us to put ourselves through this..I definitely hear you..alot of stuff i never understood about the course, and now it is slowly fitting together. And its making me a better Soldier, a better leader. All in the same way, all this is making us better husbands, hopefully to our current W's, but still, better husbands in general. It doesn't always make sense, but hopefully one day like you said the pieces fit together.
It amazes me how much people put Ranger School on a pedestal, but then again I did too. Like, its like OMG YOUR A RANGER!? And I USED to think that...but having been through it..it just means you can deal with alot of BS. Trust me...its nothing compared to what we are all doing on this board. Everyone on this board will have their Ranger Tab for the amount of [censored] we all put up with here. So...you can be an honorary Ranger. My battle buddy. ha. -----
So W and I had the talk tonight about $. AGAIN. I told her again that I would not give her anymore $ and I will NOT have my $ go to help OM in anyway. Long story short, she agreed.
For the record, since theres alot of confusion out there on this $ issue with W and I, I have not given her any $ since January. Last month she asked but I denied it and said I really don't have any, and this month, yesterday, she asked again, and I denied it again. Just this time, she threw a bigger fit (as expected).
We ended the convo with her (i think) understanding that she will not get any $ from me, and that I don't understand why she is living there with OM when she denies anything is going on. I blatantly said to her, if you are choosing to make a life there and stay there, then just tell me and I will be done and wont stand in the way. And she said, idk what I'm doing.
I think next month she will ask for $ again, because she is running low. I will just have to again deny it and politely tell her I wont give her anymore. She said she is going to "process everything" and figure out where she is going to stay.
My gut tells me she is going to try and appease me and hope I sweep this under the rug but I am strong enough to say no a third time. My question for you all is...if she tells me she's going to start an online school, but she's staying where she is at, do I do anything different? Do I do a full "Mozza" and tell her no more emotional support either? Or do I just continue to deny financials? I feel i already know the answer since most of you disagree with how much and how frequently I talk to W.
I talk to W, because we don't have kids, because we live in separate states. Because my talking to her, this is the only interaction we have, the only way i can show change. I don't have kids to talk about, to drop off and see her, if i don't talk to her much, i feel she will never know that things are different. And she has already realized that i changed in a good way.Thoughts?
ME: 28 W: 24 M: 2.5yrs T: 5yrs BD: 22 SEP 14 W Leaves: 5 OCT 14
A coworkers son just got done with Rnaher school in Ft. benning. He was telling me about how people get 'voted' off or something like that. That puts a whole new dynamic on it. You can't just 'grunt' through it. Well, MCS here can barely do more than one pull-up, so my life behind the desk suits me well
As far as support and all, I wish I could offer some advice. In my sitch, we are strictly equals in pay and can support ourselves on a single income, so I can't offer much help.
You're walking that careful line of holding true to your boundaries (no support with OM) but also trying to make sure that you're not controlling her by witholding money. I mean, that's part of separation, not having the financial assistance of the other person.
Also, no need to defend talking to W. Do what works for you. As you know, I would love to have the dialogue you have. There's a difference for you in talking and providing emotional support. That's where I think I've heard folks say treat her like a friendly neighbor.
M:36 W:37 T: 15 M:11 S6 D5 BD: 8/10/14 IDLY: 8/12/14 S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids) D Mentioned: 10/15/14 Confronted about OM: 10/15/14 EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13 She filed: 8/15 (not final)
So W and I had the talk tonight about $. AGAIN. I told her again that I would not give her anymore $ and I will NOT have my $ go to help OM in anyway. Long story short, she agreed.
Well done.
Originally Posted By: TLEE86
For the record, since theres alot of confusion out there on this $ issue with W and I, I have not given her any $ since January. Last month she asked but I denied it and said I really don't have any, and this month, yesterday, she asked again, and I denied it again. Just this time, she threw a bigger fit (as expected).
Perhaps you should consider changing your reason for not giving her money: it's not that you don't have enough, it's that you don't owe her any. She left you to be on her own, so you don't have any obligation to support her. With regards to her living with OM, I think you're on solid ground.
Originally Posted By: TLEE86
My question for you all is...if she tells me she's going to start an online school, but she's staying where she is at, do I do anything different? Do I do a full "Mozza" and tell her no more emotional support either? Or do I just continue to deny financials?
Haha. I'm just DB'ing like my life depends on it, I'm really not making up any harsher rules. At least, I hope I don't! I don't really have advice on what you should do, but you know that in my case I don't offer emotional support.
Originally Posted By: TLEE86
I talk to W, because we don't have kids, because we live in separate states. Because my talking to her, this is the only interaction we have, the only way i can show change. I don't have kids to talk about, to drop off and see her, if i don't talk to her much, i feel she will never know that things are different. And she has already realized that i changed in a good way.Thoughts?
For the record, I think you'd be surprised about how little I exchange with WAW even though we have kids. We go days without a single word exchanged. When we do, it's one-liners about schedule and the likes. There is no personality in my texts. There is no way my WAW can see my changes, unless she counts the fact that we haven't fought or I haven't criticized her once since BD. But I understand that, from your perspective, I at least have the assurance that we'll always have a channel of communication through the kids, should I decide to reverse course (which I won't as long as she's with OM because she's not emotionally available and would respect me less for catering to her while she's with OM).
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
Mozza- If the situation of $ comes up again, which it might, you are right. While its true that $ is tight right now, as Im sure it is for all of us, the reason is not because of that. It is because I wont support or enable her financially while she has left me. If we were happy and together, I would find a way to support her regardless of $. So you are 100% correct. I am choosing not to support her because of whats going on, and if it comes up again, I need to grow a pair and tell her that.
------------- Everyday I feel closer and closer to dropping the rope and just being done done. I am just so tired of her behavior.
No real change in communication, still very frequent, but W is unhappy and depressed, admittedly depressed. Says she doesn't know what to do so she looks for jobs, but finds jobs that don't pay anything and then quits, and then looks for more jobs and the cycle continues. Says that she "is so depressed and feels like she cant climb out of this huge hole and doesn't know what to do."
I told her maybe see an IC or take meds, and she is attempting to see her old IC but not available for a month.
I just don't get it. She complains about being depressed, she knows she's not doing well there, but doesn't seem to equate her surroundings/environment as being part of her depression. I mean, SHE LEFT ME, yet she's WORSE than ME? Shouldn't she be happy?
But yet, OM is still in her life, still at his place, still doesn't know what she's doing. And I am getting closer and closer to telling her, I don't want to talk to you anymore because whether you tell me you're not sure about where you are going to end up, you have made a very conscious choice to stay there. So until you leave, I am going to keep communication to a minimum. Do I want to? Not really...but i dont care anymore. She chose to leave me, why do i still give a [censored] about her. She's literally not helping herself, waiting for someone to come in and sweep her off her feet and tell her its going to be ok. She has all the power in the world to do whatever she wants, but she is choosing to do nothing.
Asked her if she though about coming here, and she said she "needs to exhaust all her options to make it on her own first" and it is "hard for her to swallow her pride and come back." BASICALLY...Im still plan B. And Im tired of it.
On another note, Im going to be in her area in 2 weeks and were going to have dinner/hang out. Not really sure how this one is going to go... but we will see.
OH YA. Today is the day I first met my W, and we got engaged a year later on this day as well. We've always celebrated it- not as big as our anniversary, but still something. SHE FORGOT ABOUT IT. She texted me and said she's depressed and I said yea, kind of a weird date today, and she says "I didnt even realize it....and then goes on to tell me about her depression." OUCH.
Anniversary is in 3 days. Im going to assume she's not going to even remember it. Quite honestly, I don't even plan to answer her texts or calls that day. Im so over this.
ME: 28 W: 24 M: 2.5yrs T: 5yrs BD: 22 SEP 14 W Leaves: 5 OCT 14
Were you involved in the discussion about the role models? A few months ago, several people were discussing who was their inspiration to get the attitude and tone right. I remember Clint Eastwood being one such model. Mine is Gandhi, because he is calm, has a strong moral compass, clarity of thought and a way with words.
It might be useful for you to think of who you might want to impersonate or be inspired by when you talk to your W. You need to show strength and consistency. Would it be a president? A military leader? A fictional character? A family member? Imagine the kind of person who would take no sh*t from your W, who would see right through her games and call her out on it, kindly but firmly. Someone who doesn't raise his voice, nor loses his nerves but states the fact and describes the situation plainly, accurately. "W, you know I'm no longer involved in these things. It saddens me that it's difficult for you and you know it is for me too. I hope you'll find ways to get through it, but I can't be the person supporting you under the circumstances." (hey I'm not vet so this might be off) If you want to sound alpha, you need to sound confident in your words and ideas, so no raising your voice, or speaking too fast, etc.
I'm telling you this because the constant contacts and requests of your WAW make me wonder if you give her the impression that she has a hold on you, that you're wavering, that you're protesting too much, etc. I'm not talking about what you're saying, but how you say it. I think it's a staggering 90% of communication that is not about the content. Just the fact that you're picking up the phone (or not) when she calls is a huge message which can cancel whatever you tell her ("Hello? I don't want to talk to you!" Her: "He picks up the phone, hence he wants to talk to me") It can only be giving too long an explanation for instance, showing that you're on shaky ground and trying to cover everything. "No can do" can be more powerful than 3 paragraphs sometimes. Do you see what I mean?
The 10-year anniversary of our first date was a month ago, a few days after that of Calibri. WAW and I had no contact, no mention of it. It stings.
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
So, big dilemma with your lost W. I have a big mess in my sitch too, but will give you some encouragement here.
Having kids does not automatic makes communication better. You see, when you have the kids then the subject are the kids and you feel that WAS is cold as hell sometimes, it's just business.
First...many people told me that I need to understand that my H is lost and needs time to be back into normal mode. What do I need to do to be patient during the time that he is figuring out what he wants or needs?
GET A LIFE... DO ALL THE GAL ACTIVITIES I CAN...
Why? To save myself from insanity. Why? Because it is not healthy for me to think about my sitch 24/7. Why? Because I deserve respect. Why? Because if you become strong, secure, and don't give a damn for the WAS then they pay attention on you and they become curious.
I know very well how much it hurts to be left behind, with no hope. You are dealing with rejection, a little of depression too, disillusions, a strong pain inside your heart and soul.
But who are you? Are you this guy that will be all beaten up and give up the fight? You may lose battles, but you may be in a long run to win the War. Don't you?
What about changing strategies? If your soldiers are dying on a front line, would you send more soldiers to die tomorrow? Or you would look for strategies and surprise the enemy?
Answering your W's phone calls are just giving you the illusion of closeness but deep inside you know it is not working so well.
What can you do to make her think she is losing you? Maybe do not answer all the time? Maybe, you calculate and start spacing her calls with time, this way she will feel it.
It's obvious she is lost, and she needs you more then she understands right now. You are her safety, the one that cares for her and she knows it. The only problem is that once she made a decision to split, she also decided to look into the negative of your R, and that will take a while to wear off.
Tlee, even if it hurts, I think that you can make waves, disappear for some time, then out of the blue, sent her a joke or something you know she likes, then disappear again. She will notice that you are there but you may be slipping through her fingers now.
The point here is that you are running in cheese less tunnels and it is just consuming time and energy from you.
I am not a vet yet but I have been getting real lessons that are changing the way I was doing things regarding my H. Sometimes less is more.
Regarding the money, I think you are totally right. She needs to face the consequences of her choices. About the online class it is the same. Your W is being very immature and you know this class is just another immature decision without purpose.
She says there is no OM, then why are you so sure there is one? Could it be that their R is just a friendship? Do you have any common friends that can tell you something more solid about her R with this OM?
The easy part is to give up, quit. It takes a real soldier to battle to win. One day, when you surrender, put your weapons down, at least you will know that all the blood on the ground was worth it and you will rest knowing you did it all.
Hi pink thanks for the check in- Sorry I've been MIA, been in the field for 17 days so it's been hard to get internet access. We finally go home tomorrow- I need a shower, ha.
Kind of need some advice here, hopefully you guys can help out. My W just started seeing an IC Who basically told her that we are both avoiding the problem and that we are pretending like things are fine when they are not. I will be in her area this weekend for work and were going to hang out and get dinner. She said she wants to talk about things, on the advice of her IC. Just about everything, not really something in particular.
What should I say to her? How honest should I be?
I've told her recently that I'm pretty close to being done, idk if I should have, and she responded well if your almost done then why are you going to see me?
Idk if I should give her an ultimatum. Come home and we can be separated in house and go from there an if it doesn't work thn we can file divorce, but this limbo is helping anyone.
She has made no move to committ to any course of action so she's still "figuring herself out." She actually told me today that she half expects me to date and I said is that what you wanna do and she said no.
Bottom line, what do I say to her when I see her, now that she actually wants to sit down and talk about everything???
ME: 28 W: 24 M: 2.5yrs T: 5yrs BD: 22 SEP 14 W Leaves: 5 OCT 14
- I think you should listen to what/if anything she has. - I think you should taper your honesty - No ultimatums to her. But perhaps to yourself - You keep expecting her to commit to a course of action. She won't. She's not going to. As my IC said, you can't expect to have an honest conversation with people who aren't honest with themselves. - What does an in house separation do? Except meet your needs to have your W back.
More thoughts later. Hopefully some others will chime in later.
M:32,H 32 T:10, M5 BD/H Move Out: 9/2014 - extreme anger H Mental Illness Diagnosis: 4/15 Served D Papers: 10/15 Divorced: 11/15
