No, it is not in conflict with LRT. Read page 177 of DB book and you will see that pulling back is exactly what I am talking about. There is no need to be rude or vindictive towards her. You just need to give her space. you need to stop doing things in order to see what her response will be. You need to stop trying to show her your best side in the hopes that she will snap out of it. As Sandi said, she can only see the wrong in you right now. No matter what you do. This is why you truly need to begin to do things for yourself and your children. Her responses, while confusing and oft-hurtful, are not your concern right now. Try not to get sucked in by them (as I was). I repeat - she is not behaving in a rationale fashion. The more you try to get close to her, pursue her, or try to convince her, the more controlling you will look to her. Believe me - I have tried it.
Originally Posted By: koalada
RAI isn't this in conflict with the LRT? To be a man my wife enjoys spending time with?
Actually, you go the quote wrong (nice try, though ). You want to be the MAN she would be crazy to leave. There is a big difference. Pleasing her will not help. Trying to be her friend will worsen things. The only way to do this is to work on yourself. GAL. Act "as if" you are moving on. Your actions will speak louder than any words. Give her reason to suspect that she is making a huge mistake.
We all want our old spouse back. That person is gone. This is your chance to reinvent yourself and become even greater than you were before. Go out and do it.
Koalada, you mentioned 'nice guy syndrome'. You may have already done this, but there's a book out there about 'nice guys' (Google it, I can't mention it by name here). The damn thing could have been written about me. Reading it changed my life.
I did this badly much of the time, but Sandi and RAI are right about not being her 'friend' right now. The time for being friends is when she's come out of the A and is truly committed to working on your R.
I've been in my sitch since September 2014 and I feel like we are just now getting to the point where my W is getting serious about working on our M. Patience is your friend.
Last edited by Rzrback; 03/13/1505:54 PM.
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
Sandi, I am falling under the category "nice guy syndrome". I was never good in making my life a priority. I was an angry man but without "balls". I was harmless. Maybe being tougher would be a 180. But can she distinguish between me being angry and me being though? I know I am asking a lot of strange questions, but at the moment I love to read the advice of experienced people because I don't trust my instincts.
Well first, you have to be able to differentiate anger and toughness. If you go on line to read synonyms of "toughness", you will see (interestingly enough) words like "backbone, decisiveness, firmness, courage, nerve, fortitude, grit, perseverance, spunk, moral fiber, guts,purposefulness, spine" and many more. I did not see any words that had the root of "anger". I cross referenced to see if any synonyms of anger had the word toughness. It didn't.
Have you read the book nice guy no more? (I think that's the title.) Believe it or not, Starsky had the nice guy syndrome when he first arrived eight years ago. However, when he decided to man up and get tough with his WW, he did a model job. Today, he is still around to help the folks here, and has the respect of everyone on the board. I have seen him recommend this book to other men and said it was an eye opener for him.
I used to be married to the ultimate nice guy! As a WW, I took advantage of his sweet, nice ways and I disrespected him terribly. He disgusted me and I couldn't stand to be in the same room with him. If I can encourage you to drop the nice guy image with your WW and toughen up, I will certainly try. B/c you cannot "nice" your W out of her waywardness. It simply won't work. BTW, we are still M, but he learned not to be such a nice guy.
To answer your question can she distinguish between you being angry and tough, I would say yes, as long as you keep anger out of your voice, attitude, and behavior. However, that is not to say she will respond as if she likes it. Oh nooooo! She has ruled the roost for a long time. She isn't going to give up that control easily. Although she may not like the new toughness while in her WW mode, she will respect it.
The way we women are designed, we cannot love a man until we respect him. To me, that is the biggest difference in what a WW feels toward her AP and true love. B/c many hardly know their AP, much less respect him. What the WW really feels for AP is limerence, which eventually fades.
You have to have respect from your W. You can start by reading that book and making changes in yourself. And, do not allow her to show disrespect toward you. It amazes me the number of men who tell how badly their WW speaks to them, even sarcastically or cursing, made disrespectful references about him to their children, made facial expressions (rolling eyes, etc.), put-downs, or made him the butt of her jokes, and used him as a doormat. A WW needs to be called out for any type of verbal or behavioral disrespect. Take her to a private place (away from the kids, etc.) and get her undivided attention and let her know you will not tolerate it. You don't have a heart-to-heart when you do it, either. You don't sit down to tell her gently that you didn't appreciate what she did. You stand up to her, eyeball to eyeball, and tell her in a very firm tone. No yelling, no cursing, none of that, b/c then it has turned into anger. Keep your voice calm, but firm. Let there be no doubts to your seriousness.
It is how the man approaches and the manner in how he talks to his W that tells her if you are angry or being firm on where you stand.
While on this subject, let me add this also. Since you have waited until now, she is going to see you in an unfavorable light....whatever you do. Even if you aren't doing anything to show anger, she may accuse you. You must feel confident within yourself as far as knowing you handled it right. Then, do not allow her to brainwash you, causing you to doubt yourself. She is wayward, and hardly the measuring stick to gauge how well you did....if you are expecting a positive and immediate response from her.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thank you all for your straight talk. I need this. I just discover how fresh my wounds are. My whole beeing seems to be attached to my wife. So be patient with me. I have read the book you have mentioned. I am trying to apply some of it in my life. But it will take time. I also read a book about boundaries and guess what? I don't have boundaries. So with 46 yrs I have to discover my own life? That hurts. This process is painful and I hope it's worth the effort. I am glad that I have found this forum.
Me 46 W 45 S16 D14 S10 M 20 yrs in June T22 12/14 sleeping in different rooms 01/07/15 she said she wants a separation 02/26/15 I moved out
Can I put a silver lining on all of this? You are not in the house with your W right now. This will make the detachment process easier. It will also facilitate your working on yourself. I can already see that you are making excellent use of your time reading the suggested books. I am still sleeping in the same bedroom as my W. I see her every move. I can only read books in my office at work. It has made things very difficult for me.
Originally Posted By: koalada
So with 46 yrs I have to discover my own life? That hurts. This process is painful and I hope it's worth the effort.
ko, consider yourself lucky. Some people go through their whole life and never discover themselves or what they are made of. You are being given a chance. There is no growth without pain. I know the process is painful - I feel it every day - but what sustains me is that I KNOW it is worth it.
Dear divorce busters. As I have mentioned before, it is my son's birthday on Monday. We usually decorate the room together the evening before and wake him up with a song. Then we have a first piece of cake for breakfast. This might happen at 6:30 am. My W offered that I could come over to the house, join the decoration time and spend the night in the house. Although I appreciate the offer I am not sure what to do with it. Due to the fact that I would also see her on Tuesday and Wednesday (although I would not spend any time with her but with the kids),I don't know what would be the right approach. The good thing would be that I would feel part of the family and the children would experience some kind of normality for a few hours. Any ideas on this? We did not have any disagreement for two weeks (due to my changes). Otherwise I would have to miss the decoration time and would have to get up at 5 am to be there for the singing. (we are not living in the same town).
Me 46 W 45 S16 D14 S10 M 20 yrs in June T22 12/14 sleeping in different rooms 01/07/15 she said she wants a separation 02/26/15 I moved out
It is really difficult when it comes to family traditions and holidays. I think this is one you will have to make the decision about. I could tell you the reason not to partake in the birthday festivities, where your WW is concerned. However, this should not be about her. Secretly, is it?
This is your son's BD, and you are the one who knows him and how much, or not so much, it would affect him if things were done differently. If he would be totally devastated that it could affect your R with him, then do what you need to do.
I will use this example to tell you to always check your heart and see how much you are doing for the sake of the kids........and how much is for your own sake. It is amazing the number of people who subconsciously, or maybe knowingly, use their kids as their excuse.
The other point I want to make is when the things such as this birthday arise, ask yourself if you would continue to hold to that family tradition if you and W were divorced and remarried to other spouses. If so, then carry on.
Really tough stuff. ((hugs))
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi, this is a tough one for me because of my own history. When my father left, I had no idea that a divorce could affect me. I was a boy who suddenly discovered the changes in that what I had called a family. On my birthday and my "Konfirmation" (when you become part of the German evangelical church) he stood outside of our house, the motor still running. He not even got out of the car. I got my gift through the car window. And although I was happy about the gift as a child, as an adult I hate this memory. This is not how a family should celebrate a birthday. He could have taken me for a walk or some ice cream, just showing me that it is not a duty but about me. My W has two close friends who have been divorced. In their cases their new life went well and that might be one reason for her to believe that a divorce would not affect the children very much. I on the other hand still hate those inner pictures. I know that one day he would have to deal with reality. So I will sleep about this. Right now I would say that it is not about her but I will double check my heart.
Me 46 W 45 S16 D14 S10 M 20 yrs in June T22 12/14 sleeping in different rooms 01/07/15 she said she wants a separation 02/26/15 I moved out
). You want to be the MAN she would be crazy to leave. There is a big difference. Pleasing her will not help. Trying to be her friend will worsen things. The only way to do this is to work on yourself. GAL. Act "as if" you are moving on. Your actions will speak louder than any words. Give her reason to suspect that she is making a huge mistake.