[Starsky309]

Agree with Complex -- make him earn it.

Us men like to pursue ANYWAY, but it's also because YOU are worth it: you are worth having sober, loving sex with.

People value most that which is difficult to obtain.


Starsky

[Cadet]

Susana I will also say that you learn lessons here as you go down this road.

The idea is to keep learning and implementing what you have learned.

Wonka talks about the Love Bank - which is one of my personal favorites.

Trust his ACTIONS not his words and keep looking for consistant ACTIONS, IMHO.

[susana4]

Thanks Complex, Starsky and Cadet for your advice. Ok, so wait and see and watch his actions. I agree I'm worth it!

Question time though (again, I'm really sorry if I'm asking dumb questions):
-What actions am I looking for? I am really more of a words person so it's hard for me to look for and note actions.
In my last DB coaching session a few weeks ago, I made two goals - that he would invite me to do something together, and he would kiss me. Both happened. In my call yesterday we set the following goal - for H to identify and share one emotion with me. Are there other consistent actions I should be looking for? Even though I have these goals I kind of still feel lost in not knowing what actions I should be looking for.

-How do I send the right signal? Maybe it's just me, but I would think if he keeps trying to ML and I keep saying no, that will feel like rejection. Maybe I'm over sensitive but I get very rejected and hurt if I keep trying to ML to someone and they say no. Now, I kind of don't care because he has already rejected ME by firing me as his W! But I also suspect that maybe I need to reject him in the right way, and make sure I send a signal of - 'I'm not saying I'm not attracted to you, I'm saying I want to ML in a sober, loving way'. How do I get that message across to H?

[gogofo]

'I'm not saying I'm not attracted to you, I'm saying I want to ML in a sober, loving way'. How do I get that message across to H?

Tell me if I am wrong, but why not say this ^ to him? Would direct communication be so bad? I know if I was told this I would refuse the best bottle of wine in the world. Maybe say it in a teasing way, but remain serious about it. You do deserve to ML in a loving way.

I was going to suggest cooking something special for BD. This is what my XW and I would do all the time. I think it lets the other person know how special they are to you.

He seems to love you cooking and it is something that he could not get anywhere else.

If he is into cars and racing, etc, maybe share this video with him. It is one of the most infamous car videos ever made. Don't know if he has watched it before or not. Maybe something like "I ran across this video today and it reminded me of something you would like. Enjoy while I cook dinner."

vimeo.com/34039780

You could also accidentally work in some seductive moves like bend over at the waist to look into the oven instead of squatting down. Wear a great perfume and lean across him really close as you serve him the dinner. Keep up with some light flirting.

[susana4]

'I'm not saying I'm not attracted to you, I'm saying I want to ML in a sober, loving way'. How do I get that message across to H?

Tell me if I am wrong, but why not say this ^ to him? Would direct communication be so bad? I know if I was told this I would refuse the best bottle of wine in the world. Maybe say it in a teasing way, but remain serious about it. You do deserve to ML in a loving way.

Hmm, well that makes sense, and I *do* like words and stating things but then I thought we were supposed to use actions, not words? So is it wrong to just out and out state that? Man, I get myself in a twist sometimes with DB principles!

I was going to suggest cooking something special for BD. This is what my XW and I would do all the time. I think it lets the other person know how special they are to you.

He seems to love you cooking and it is something that he could not get anywhere else.

If he is into cars and racing, etc, maybe share this video with him. It is one of the most infamous car videos ever made. Don't know if he has watched it before or not. Maybe something like "I ran across this video today and it reminded me of something you would like. Enjoy while I cook dinner."

vimeo.com/34039780

You could also accidentally work in some seductive moves like bend over at the waist to look into the oven instead of squatting down. Wear a great perfume and lean across him really close as you serve him the dinner. Keep up with some light flirting.

Thanks so much for the link! I don't know if he's seen it but I think he'd love that video and it's a great idea to share it with him!

Ha, I do the bending over move all the time. The perfume thing's a good tip, thanks!
I am a pro at teasing him! The other day before he left for his ski trip I decided to play a game with myself and see how many times I could 'excite' him in the 20 minutes before he had to leave for the airport (the answer? 3 times! Thought I did pretty well, lol). Before we got together we worked together for a few years and he was my IT guy, I used to flirt with him to get him a lot, just for fun, and to get my computer fixed faster lol. He was pretty much eating out of my hand the whole time, or so the girls I worked with used to say, they always said he was in love with me and would do anything for me. So I know how to flirt and tease him, but this re-attracting him thing? That's new! And hard!

[susana4]

Help!! I am really bad at this no ML thing. I nearly relapsed tonight!

(Warning: might get a bit graphic)

H went out for drinks and came back fairly late. I'd made a nice dinner and baked muffins so I already knew between that and turning him down last night, he would probably try to get me to have sex. He was also eyeing me up a lot and was pretty touchy the whole night, brushing against me and touching me when speaking.

When he came to say good night, he gave me a hug and then carried on holding me and just looked me in the eye and asked if he could pleasure me. I laughed and said no, not tonight, he was drunk and why didn't we see how we felt about things another time when he was sober. He kissed me. Then I did Starsky's line (thanks!) "why dont you take your drunk big head and your little head out to the sofa." That made him laugh, but then he kissed me again, and we ended up making out like teenagers for about 2 hours. It was seriously like being a teenager, he kept trying to get handsy and I kept pushing him away.

I know it's bad but I found it sooooo hard to resist. Anyway if you guys got one thing right it's that he definitely followed me around like a puppy with its tongue out after I said no. Seriously, he was lying next to me on the bed BEGGING me to let him pleasure me, he seriously said "I don't care if you don't touch me, I don't care if there's nothing in it for me, please just let me be your f*** toy and let me make you happy". Omfg did that take a lot of willpower for me to turn down! I just repeated "you're drunk, let's see how we feel another time when you're sober".

Eventually after a lot of back and forth and making out and him trying to get handsy and me pushing him away and me teasingly telling him to get his drunk head out to the sofa, I finally pushed him away, and he kissed me and said good night and left.

Man, was that hard. Guys, I don't know what to do. I have a really hard time turning down ML. I have a extremely high sex drive and PT is one of my LL and this is d@mn hard!

Advice? 2x4s? What should I do if he tries it again? And what if he tries to ML sober? Then do I bring up the loving part? I didn't say that tonight (seems like R talk?).

[Complex]

Easy answer: sex does not always equal love. Make love to him when you feel truly loved, don't do it just for the sex. Passion is great, but make sure you are being loved first. Listen to your gut feeling if he seems to be open to work on the M. You don't want breakup sex, you want makeup sex!
Don't overdo the teasing either. You don't want this to become a sexual game. You want to save your M, right?

[Complex]

I wouldn't do any R talk btw. Give it some time, don't rush things now.
If he really wants you btw he might as well just 'rape' you..not violently of course. That'd be a tough one, you'll most likely like it that he takes control but if you turn it down it might end in a frustration conflict and at talk.
Just be careful.
I don't think you actually need to continue teasing him much. Sounds like he's super horny already. Maybe switch gears and just take care of yourself for a few days again.
It's a tough situation but you need him to start any at talks. Like I said, give it more time.

[susana4]

Man, this morning I feel SO sexually frustrated, and like I failed at the tease and good bye (although I did at least say no to ML and that was fricking hard).

Things were thankfully nice this morning, not awkward at all. H apologised to me "for being a pest last night" (I didn't know what to say, so I just laughed). He was pretty flirty and offered to carry my laptop to work (which really surprised me, because he used to complain a lot about carrying my stuff and told me I 'treated him like a packhorse' - I think the problem in the past was I didn't appreciate him or thank him) and seemed weirdly appreciative when I said he could carry it - he gave me a hug like I was the one doing *him* a favour, lol!

Listen to your gut feeling if he seems to be open to work on the M.
I honestly don't know what that will feel like so maybe I can't trust my gut! I know to look for consistent actions not words, but I don't know what actions I'm looking for. I'm definitely a words person and this part of DBing is so counterintuitive to me!

The thing is, I wasn't teasing last night, I was just going about my life. I was actually really tired and excited to have the house to myself for the night, so I made dinner and got in my pyjamas and watched a movie. My PJ's are NOT sexy, they are long sleeved and long pants and very baggy. Yet every time we've ML or he's tried to I have been wearing those non-sexy PJ's! Anyway, I wasn't really thinking about ML or even looking nice or anything, I gave up on the dressing sexy and mysterious, I just wanted to relax and watch a movie (when I got home I actually thought "I should be sexy and mysterious but d@mnit I just want to relax in my own house tonight!" So I did). I was wearing unsexy PJ's, no makeup, my hair was a mess and I was just relaxing. So him trying to ML didn't seem to be related to me teasing.

My main challenges here are:
-He is super horny. *I* am super horny. I have a higher sex drive than him and I had a lot of trouble saying no last night. This is a combustible situation.

-I don't want to start R talks, I know better than to. My problem is, how do I say no if he tries to seduce me without getting into an R talk, but still let him know why I am saying no to ML. I went with a modified version of what gogofo suggested just saying out loud - 'it's not that I'm not attracted to you I just want to ML sober" (said in a playful way). But I left out saying "sober and loving way" because I feel like throwing in loving is kind of like pushing for an R talk, no?

Here's my problem: if he keeps trying to initiate, and I keep saying no, how do I make it clear *why* I am rejecting him? Or is it OK to be a bit more upfront here?

[susana4]

If he really wants you btw he might as well just 'rape' you..not violently of course. That'd be a tough one, you'll most likely like it that he takes control but if you turn it down it might end in a frustration conflict and at talk.

Btw I honestly don't know what THAT means, I think you didn't mean any harm but this strikes me as wrong to say or at least poorly phrased