This need not be the end.

[Barry]

Ahoy, thanks for your input. I know I wont get a better offer than this, and provided I can...I intend to take it.

Toots, thank you too. I agree that the difference between out sitch's is fairly crucial. When W sees a L, they will tell her she is crazy for putting forward such a deal. I don't know how this will pan out yet. W may say that it's all she wants to get it over with quickly - it 's her idea after all, or she may push for more (say, out of my pension pot) once she has all the facts. I need to be careful no matter which way I decide to go (I am back in D mode right now!!).

25years, thanks for the detailed response, I'll go through some of your comments here to try and clarify...

You seem to be saying that - unless you file for divorce AND it's finalized,things can change.

Not quite.
The divorce doesn't need to be finalised to draw up the consent order, it's the decree nisi you need to do it, not the decree absolute. The consent order, should it be agreed by the courts (which would probably mean we would both need to appear in court to explain why it is so heavily one sided in my favour) would cover the usual division of assets, and make provision for the children's welfare. The consent order would need to be finalised to make it legally binding, but not necassarily the divorce.

Here In America, most things re children can be modified until they are no longer children.
That is b/c a child's needs can change (the child can become disabled, or need additional help in school, for instance).

I believe this would be the same in the UK (though I'm not totally sure at this stage). Any agreements made between W and I relating to the children could - and actually should, be reviewed if their needs were to change.

But property division agreements here, once agreed upon AND approved by the courts, are finalized when they are "finalized." So is the divorce itself. That cannot be undone.

^^ This is the difference. A consent order cannot be changed once it's been finalised (maybe in the case of the children's needs as above). A separation agreement does NOT carry the same legal weight and changes could be requested by W. The changes requested would need a valid reason - not just because "W feels she got a raw deal at the time of signing the SA" As Toots said, the courts would take a dim view of that request. So really, my best protection lies in a Consent Order, which I can only obtain if I divorce her.

However, what's really being discussed by your wife, I BELIEVE, is a reasonable suggestion about how to reduce costs, mostly by you two attempting to reach an out of court property agreement.

Correct. I've told W that I'm not handing her £10,000 though on agreement that isn't legally binding. I know too many people who have been stung by their ex-partners. Agreements that were built on trust, which soon dissipated when they went their separate ways.

Nothing is inherently bad or wrong about that in itself, especially since she has not suggested anything insanely one sided or mean spirited. It's just really painful. You are presently unable to Not take it personally, which makes all of this much harder. If this were an arms length transaction like most business deals, you'd be better able to review the terms objectively, obviously.

True, in fact the offer she has made is more sided to me. It IS painful though, because we both know that she's making this one-sided offer in an attempt to get away from me asap and on with her life.
I know I should just let go.

But don't dismiss it b/c you are taking it personally; work on NOT taking it so personally. Remind yourself that as badly as you feel, this really could be a lot worse.

I really am trying to think of it as a piece of financial business rather than what it is - the end of my long marriage. I read a lot of other people's sitch's here and I know it could be a LOT worse.

You are now in a "Damage Control" mode. Time to cut your losses. You must do your best to protect yourself AND your assets, which is another way of protecting your children, btw.

The best way for me to do this is to file and have the consent order drawn up.

I'm unclear about the custody. Are you NOT going to have your d's with you? But you will have the boys? Yes, I know boys are male and girls are female but won't they feel the other parent has given them away?

My D16 will live with W, S13 and S18 with me and S20 lives away from home already (Uni). We've both spoken with the children and we're all agreed that this is the way forward.

I think the father daughter relationship is very underrated in our world. As much as you can, you must make it clear to each child, that they are precious to you, and so is time spent with them. I just need to encourage you as much as possible to NOT believe that "a girl needs a mom and not much else" b/c that is not true.

Absolutely agree with this. My D16 and I have always had a very close relationship. Unfortunatly, she does appear to be fighting W's corner at every oppurtunity at the moment. I've spoken with her (as she will be the one I don't get to live with) and we've agreed that she will come and stay over often and come for meals etc. I've told the boys the same - that W will want to see them often. I believe W is actually looking at property close by so they will be able to do this.

So you mean to say that a LS in your country would NOT make any difference in the logistics or finances? Other than religious or emotional reasons, it sounds as if there are no other factors, and thus, you'd only be prolonging your financial uncertainty with a Legal Separation.

Correct?

The part in bold type is essentially correct yes.

As to her replying "I think so"... I would read almost nothing into that. It has to be the 20th time you have asked her if she is sure. Her saying "I'm 100% POSITIVE!!" might almost sound cruel to say, at this point..

I know, I'm clutching at straws.

FTR, I don't think most people are "positive" about getting a divorce, but they do it anyhow. They figure they'll see how it feels later on, but they are in pain or emotional discomfort and think a divorce is their only answer. They do not believe things can change. So, when they change it themselves, and then see that the other person IS in fact changing and becoming different, that's the only way THEY can learn this lesson. Sometimes it's too late to recon, but sometimes it's not.
I fear that W and I are in the first category.

None of us can tell you how to OR IF you can win her back. But we know one thing.
We know that no WAS returns to a marriage they left, UNLESS they believe the marriage can be better/different than before. Only time apart and change in YOU, can prove that to her...(ask yourself how you are behaving differently than before, to see the areas you may wish to work on). And please, don't worry today, about how you will feel toward her tomorrow. Just get back to YOU. Sound advice - thank you.

I assume a legal sep agreement would be A factor to consider in a Div agreement but not THE ONLY factor (many legal Sep agreements here are simply "copy & pasted" to fit the final Div so that the LS agreement becomes the final Div settlement as well). But it is not conclusively THE factor, in a final divorce.Yes, this is the same in the UK.

So if YOU want an end to "financial ambiguity" and to eliminate risk, the best or only way for that to happen is to divorce her. Correct? Essentially - yes.

My head is saying to D her and move on. My heart is saying that if I don't want to file, don't file.

The business reasons are not that relevant in my opinion. This seems more about your crossroads of when to move on and when to keep standing. Again, up to you.
Yes - this is exactly what I'm struggling with. I wish I could silence my heart.

How can I remedy a D, or bust one...that I'm talking about initiating!!?.

Every now and then, it's the only way to.
I guessed this was the answer.

So, what I need to decide now is which way I want to go on this. Do I trust her or not? I don't know right now.

I don't see that as the question. I see the money question as being "if we have to change any part of this, it will cost more. If not, it'll save some money."
And the emotional question is "Do I file for a D that I don't want?" AND "How, if at all, could that affect any chance for a later recon?".
Yes - these questions are more accurate. I'm still none the wiser on the answers though.

Keep it boiled down to the truths and risks you KNOW of, and accept that there is simply NO risk free way thru this.
And keep on keeping on...you will get to the other side, IN TIME.

Ultimatley, I think I should follow my head and D her. It takes away any financial risk once the Consent Order is completed, I get my home back (albeit at a higher cost), and two thirds of the available kids living with me.
Where W is right now, I deserve more than this out of life. I have a lot to offer someone (should I want to pursue another R with someone else) and I shouldn't have to be constantly worrying about if my partner loves me - which is what I've done for a long time.

I really appreciate you taking the time to give such a detailed response. I'll confirm what I do when I do it!!

Barry.