Your post is very much like most of us HD guys feel. We are depressed because our wives are LD. And my wife thinks I suffer from depression, but I only get depressed when I think about sex, or when I see OTHER couples lovingly embrace.
You talk about the examples of marriages that actually solve this problem. If you will notice, that most all of the examples that fix this problem are recorded for couples that have MOTIVATED LD spouses that fix the problem. I have yet to see an example where the HD spouse did X, Y, and Z and then the LD spouse becomes fully recovered forever. I even asked for a success stories board on here for HD spouses that have fixed their situations with little help from the LD. There basically are no success stories. Success only appears to happen when the LD spouse puts 150% effort into it, and most are not that motivated.
Maybe you should ask your wife if it would be OK to seek sexual relief OUTSIDE the marriage so you can be a good guy and take the pressure for sex off her?
Your wife fell asleep on the couch and you went into despair. Everything is a failure and all is for naught. Nothing that has happened in the last few days makes any difference. It's just all a disaster.
hmmmm....this has happened before to you. Remember her falling asleep and you thinking how awful it was? Turned out she passed out from too much wine. Think there might be a little something in the way you process events, particularly in this area?
Even your keel out, bud. Go back to the event and keep it in perspective. She fell asleep on the couch. You make a comment about it being a defense mechanism and assume, based on some vague eye movement, that you're right even though she tells you you're wrong.
Quote: Once again, I'm sure I need to chill out and be patient. But I'm really on the verge of giving up.
Take your own advice. It's good stuff. Stop yourself BEFORE you journal your way into a self-fulfilling prophecy. She's working on it. Support her efforts and stop looking at every little thing as a sign of failure. You're being too vigilant and that's what causes pressure on her and a large part of your own discouragement.
Good advice from others about the list, etc.
Your wife IS motivated. Support her motivation. Don't undermine her or yourself by falling into despair over minor deviations from a pathway that is already headed in the right direction.
Even if you haven't shared your journaled feelings with her, YOU are still looking at the world through those kinds of feelings. They will affect what you see and how you see it. There could be some real success in your situation and you'll miss it because the little setbacks have a bigger effect on your thinking than the really significant successes.
Morningglory, Thank you for a thoughtful post...it made me feel much better. Those things are important to me and you are right, I'm getting alot more than I ever imagined from this.
Hairdog, I was thinking more along the lines of the suede flogger.
SuperDave, It's an interesting proposition to get back into racing. Last year I placed in the top 5 for the entire 12 race series which forces me to upgrade to the next class. I might need to keep this relationship thing consistent for this year, build up more trust, then do the racing next season. This way, she'll actually notice that I'm gone on the weekends. Oooh, wait, that sounds sort of vindictive.
I have to look at the pain I went through last year to be a fast cyclist. It wasn't always fun and I would say that I had more sex with trees, rocks, and dirt than i did in my marriage. I actually wonder if there's a relationship between my physical pain tolerance and emotional pain tolerance. Heck the training might be similar. Exert - rest, exert -rest.
I came to my company's office today to get a little distance from the house. W knew I was not feeling good because she tried to give a bunch of affection and kisses to me when I left. I just called home, left a message saying how good I thought she looked and that I "loved her".
Cemar, Your optimism inspires me. There actually may be some merit to asking to go outside the relationship for sex but not where we are right now. I need to show at least 1 year of consistency and patience. My post was definitely a low point which I need to shield W from. If I tried to talk to her about my feelings, she would have started feeling guilty, confused, lost and discouraged.
With or without her, I'm going to stay committed to this task. Last night was a low point - like having a crash while training for a race. I'm sure I will have some high points like the wins I experienced last year. If I'm going to keep this parallel going, then I should feel comforted in the fact that it now takes very little effort to maintain the physical gains I made last year. Maybe next year, I will be able to say the same thing about my emotional gains.
I just need to keep telling myself to "be worth her effort". Not be a pain in the ass. Stay consistent. Let her know the expectations. Then let her work towards them on her own.
As far as the list is concerned, pretend you never saw that massive, nasty thing I posted before. I'm keeping this one short and to the point and not making it sound like a love letter. 1. ML or sexual play every 3 days minimum 2. Nightly cuddle and kiss time ...how's that for a list?
15 PIECES OF FLAIR This whole thing reminds me of one my all time favorite movies Office Space. There's a scene where the manager of a restaurant (Stan) is giving Joanna (Jennifer Aniston) grief about her amount of "flair" (the goofy pins that TGI Friday emplyees wear on their suspenders). Here's the dialog......
Quote:
Stan: I need to talk about your flair. Joanna: Really? I have 15 buttons on. I, uh, (shows him) Stan: Well, ok, 15 is minimum, ok? Joanna: Ok. Stan: Now, it’s up to you whether or not you want to just do the bare minimum. Well, like Brian, for example, has 37 pieces of flair. And a terrific smile. Joanna: Ok. Ok, you want me to wear more? Stan: Look. Joanna. Joanna: Yeah. Stan: People can get a cheeseburger anywhere, ok? They come to Chotchkie’s for the atmosphere and the attitude. That’s what the flair’s about. It’s about fun. Joanna: Ok. So, more then? Stan: Look, we want you to express yourself, ok? If you think the bare minimum is enough, then ok. But some people choose to wear more and we encourage that, ok? You do want to express yourself, don’t you? Joanna: Yeah. Yeah. Stan: Great. Great. That’s all I ask. Joanna: Ok.
I like your list Dave, I came to the same conclusion about a small number of goals and settled on this list which she has agreed to:
1. ML every Friday night.
That's it. It has worked for the last 2 weeks (well not exactly, because of various traumas last Friday was missed) but I am hopeful for this Friday. The reason I didn't try for every 3 days (which I agree would be much better) is because I think it is necessary to establish a habit first. After a few months my guess is that it won’t be such a big deal for her and I am hoping that the odd midweek approach will then be accepted. I am ‘lucky’ in that she follows Michele’s description perfectly – she has no desire until she gets some foreplay then once we get going she seems to enjoy it. The problem is getting past the thorny barricade she puts up but I am hoping that the accepted Friday night habit will remove this barrier enough that midweek love could eventually become a reality. Every three days would have been impossible for her to consider straight away – she tried to haggle me to once a month but we have tried and failed at that before. It is too long a gap to establish any kind of habit. SD
I just had a thought Dave36... I may be odd, but if my H suggested "ML or sexual play every 3 days minimum", I'd feel a bit obligated. Would your chances increase at all if you were to suggest it more subtly like, "ML or sexual play a few times a week"? Maybe once (at least on weekends) and once (at least) during the week... it pretty much turns out to be every 3 days.
There's just so much pressure when a set schedule is requested. If your approach is more subtle, she may surprise you with more frequency.
That's exactly my W issue too. Once she gets into it, it's great for her. I might change the list to say this instead .....
1. ML once on the weekend, once midweek..and one bonus time that you decide.
What's so difficult is that everyone says "frequency" is therapeutically beneficial. So my frequency which may seem like a big number is partially for me and partially for her LD. I could survive on 1-2 times per week but in the long run I would like to build up to more. So I'm not sure what to do.
One side of me wants to do the Great American Sex Diet which is a 28 day program which basically forces a daily encounter for an entire month with the understanding that we would then move into a more realistic schedule. This is like the South Beach Diet where the beginning is really tough, then it gets more reasonable.
The other side of me thinks we should take our time and try to rekindle the desire back through consistency with a "ramp up" period where we start at once every 10 days, then move up to 7, then 4, then 2. I could propose that to her.
The other way is to simply establish a baseline of 3 times per week. Not sure if this is as good as the others I mentioned. In some ways I think it's like physical fitness and training. ..you build up to it, then another side makes me think that it's not at all like that because it doesn't actually require cell-division to have sex...unless you count the regeneration of your ...never mind.
I would be curious if anyone has approached this with the "immersion method" versus the "build up". Pros, cons, etc.
BTW...I called a sex therapist today. I will probably go myself at first, but there's a good chance that W will want to go when she learns that I'm going. I'm really excited because this therapist seems to be really into it, is published and has support from many Phd peers. trust me, I'll tell you how this goes.
I'm wondering if this is a cool strategy for everything.....
Live my own life, keep being a good H, keep marching forward with researching solutions BUT not be secretive about...be blatant but don't talk to her about anything. Simply wait for her to "sneak a peek" at the Sex Diet book in my nightstand, or chime in with "can I go to the therapist with you?".
It's an interesting idea...kind of like..."I'm working on this with or without you and I will be a better man because of it".
Are you seeking your wife's permission or her approval? If neither, go do what you need to do. If she asks about it, tell her. If she doesn't ask, don't worry about it, go do what you need to do.
Permission or Approval...that's a tough one. Probably neither.
This could really be a part of a 180 for me. Because I'm ALWAYS telling her about everything in my life. It might be a good thing to "do my own thing" and create a little mystery.
