I think they, including Michele, read them here and there. If you're concerned about your W thinking you're broken, maybe a phone consultation would be beneficial?
I've just finished reading most of this thread, and I hate to tell you this, but your life sounds so much like mine, it's spooky! Except I've got 15 years and 2 more kids on you.
Question about your sitch: how long had it been since the previous last ML session? Sorry, I'm still getting caught up here - I haven't been here for most of the past year.
For me, the past 10-15 years have been long deserts of 3-8 months, with brief oases here and there. There have been "dry" periods of over a year at times.
I, too, read the LRT post when I read Monk's thread. That was one of the things that led me to my "letting go" feeling that this next attempt at getting things (back) on track will be the last. If it doesn't work, then the end-game goes into effect.
In my family, divorce is almost unknown, but my youngest sister just separated from her husband, with a young DD (8-10yo?). Sorry, but I'm firmly with Doctor Laura on this one... kids need to be in a family until they're old enough to handle the breakup, which is (in my mind) almost grown. Yeah, if my W and I split when our youngest is 15, I'll feel like I'm fudging that one a bit, but eventually we do have to take care of ourselves. I do think that by that age he'll be able to get through it. Yes, it'll affect him, and probably greatly, but I'm hoping it won't destroy him at that point. If I took that road now, I'm sure it would. That is something you will have to think very clearly about, concerning D6. I won't pretend to put any attitude on you, but you'll need to keep her very clearly in mind, and your eyes wide open. Even a "dead" marriage is a better environment for a child than a broken one. Believe me, I know where you're at right now... been there, and have a closet full of tee-shirts...
Tim: I'm going to jump in with one quick comment - I kind of disagree with Dr. Laura in that I think the older ones take it much much harder than young ones. They understand, they know so much and they carry the divorce with them much longer than a child under 10 - provided of course that both parents aren't bickering and fighting and making their lives miserable after the divorce. I say this because I have two young ones - they were 2 & 5 when dad left the state for a different life. Yes I'm sure it had some sort of effect but they have done remarkably well (I take the credit on that one). You are right in that there is no good time for divorce.
I'm not sure if this topic, based on Dr. Laura came up because I mentioned her earlier. I know she has good advice but she lost lots of credibility with me a few years ago...that's why me and my W are both down on her. Plus, we both tend to not trust anyone who gets too popular...it's a "love of the underdog thing". Not sure why we do that. I saw Dr. Phill the other day...he makes perfect sense and is probably a very good counselor...but I would never quote him. My sense is that waiting, in my case 14 years in an autonomous marriage where we don't communicate like a "loving" couple will lead our D6 to doomed relationships. Actually, my W is a victim of a D when she was 17 which contributed to her issues. I'm not sure there is a right or wrong answer, I might tend toward sticking it out but I would be very inclined to have an affair.
Our last ML was last Friday night. Prior to that it was a couple of weeks ago. We were together on V-day too. So far this year, we've ML more than we did last year. She's on board and it might sound very optimistic and that I should be grateful but there's a burning in my belly that we're going to have more troubles.
Like you, my family has virtually no divorce though my wife's parents were. I feel like that would be a big issue if it ever came down to it.
I hope I didn't give the impression that I'm on the edge of being a WAH. It would kill me to hurt my D6 and if things get a little better, like ML every couple of weeks, I will not even consider it, but if things revert to where they were and remain that way, it's a different story. Also, I can't afford to D. There's not enough in our budget to afford a place for me to sleep except under an overpass.
All the reading I was doing was really getting me down. Reading the "tactic" post was good because it gave me an idea of what I should be doing with my therapy. We are so new to this that it's good to know all the steps so I can set goals. The idea of "drawing" people to you versus "pulling" and "pushing" is the greatest idea but also very scary for someone who is used to getting things their way.
Anyway, I read Aquarian's post and visited the marriage builder site and studied some of that. He add's "shared recreation" to the list of LLs. This upset me because my W and I so very different. I'm completely into extreme sports that she would never be able to do, but that doesn't prevent me from taking the family to a beginner mountain bike trail. Mountain biking is my primary hobby and gives me great pleasure. W hates the heat, sweat, the outdoors and being away from the house. I like to eat out, she doesn't etc. The point this doctor makes is that you should be in each others company when one of you is experiencing joy. Nice thought. So I pondered this all afternoon. I had written another post which I previewed but never posted because I had gotten walked in on by W. This post was the most negative one I had ever written because some of the things I read made me think that maybe I had fallen out of love with her and that my respect and admiration of her clouded this fact. That's a tough one to swallow.
THIS EVENING
I got busted!!!!!
Actually this was perfect. I was wathcing TV with W and began to walk near me, I switched the screen to Google. I think all the time I've been on my laptop was making her suspicious so she jokingly reached down and pulled up a search history to see what I've been searching on. Luckily there was nothing bad at all in this search form. There was "The Marriage Bed" which is the first thing she saw and mentioned. She couldn't have picked a better one because it's a christian website about building marriages through biblically sound sexual practices. (note: I'm fairly agnostic, so this really impressed her). I guess in the big picture, getting busted for surfing "relationship improvement" sites is probably not a bad thing. I was however, blushing and began to sweat. I actually need to hide the fact that I'm posting on these forums because she is just about to complete SSM and I would be very concerned if she read this journal because it might freak her out to see so much personal stuff on here.
So after she wiped the sweat off of my blushing forehead, she got the conversation going about this stuff and we a had a very nice, positive conversation. I told her how I was voraciously researching everything I can find to better myself, make myself more desirable, and develop the tools necessary to maintain a great relationship with her. I briefly told her why I was a little moody earlier in the day...that something I read was very "tough" and challenging . She says I'm making great progress, that she loves the "new me" and that her desire is actually coming back because I've been so "inclusive" with the family and good to them lately. This indicates that she wasn't necessarily lacking desire, but that she was withholding it. She probably lost some desire by virtue of not having sex but it might come back hopefully. I asked if she had any "desirous thoughts" about me while I was out of town, and I assured her that it wouldn't hurt my feelings if she didn't. She said that she couldn't sleep because my absence was making her feel unsettled. (I should have told that the solution to that is masturbation ...there's a nice thought). I told her that I had 2 new books which each approach "sexual healing" through different ways. The first is a Tantric book for men which has great things in it. It reinforces the SSM book that simply being together strengthens the bond and it recommends a daily "devotion" of 5-10 minutes of being "physically connected without movement"...just breathing. Sure the Tantra stuff is a little bit new agey, but there were some great principles and practical advice. The second book I got was the Great American Sex Diet which has a 28 program and looks really fun but it's probably too much for W right now. Once again though, it reinforces the SSM idea of "doing it". What makes this book special is the before and after photos of average, real couples...extremely nice to see an old grey couple in love. I tried to get a read on which direction she would like to take our sex-life. I probably need to let her read them in a few months and decide for herself which direction to go.
Once again, she was wiped out tonight..couldn't make it through her favorite show on TV. This was better that trying to go to bed together and then having her doze off with me. She was truly tired and I respect that. we had a couple passionate kisses on the sofa which were very nice.
Wow, what a day. Getting a chance to talk about this stuff with W is really good...I get a similar "release" as I do when ML . Now I'm too tired, Nighty night.
Dave: I nearly got busted last night too!!! I was in the den reading the forum when she came in for some reason. I panicked and minimized leaving a blank desktop! What a giveaway that I was doing something naughty. She talked to me for a while but there was no way I could concentrate on her. I was in a cold sweat! I know that she will probably find her way here eventually (hello sweetheart ) but she is definitely not ready for the shock yet ! SD
Hey Dave, Here is my advice--try to chill out a little. REALLY try to be empathetic to your wife and think about how she is feeling lately.
For instance, she was prolly freaking out the entire week you were gone, putting massive amounts of pressure on herself. Telling herself things like, He is going to be expecting me to jump his bones when he returns but that is not ME! And so on..
It is no wonder that she nearly talked herself out of it completely with thoughts of how tired she was.
It might be beneficial to step back and look at your situation objectively and think about how much brighter things look now than they did a year ago. She is taking baby steps towards being more sexual. Enjoy that and try not to push for more. Think of an area in your life in which you have been pressed to deliver more than you are ready to deliver--most likely, you retreated or became defensive or angry.
It is so hard for the HD person because you have been waiting literally for years for such a thing to happen--now you want it to happen overnight. Sex comes naturally and easy to us and the thinking goes: Once the LD person is over whatever hurdle was in their way, then sex will become easy and frequent. It is more complicated than that, though. Not that I can give details on what it feels like (as I am on the same side of the fence as you) but I realize that it is more difficult than just "doing it" or they would have already tried that tactic.
Here is some hope for you: My husband was in a similar boat as your wife and he has made tremendous strides. At first he was SO awkward with trying to be sexual. It was obvious that it was forced, which greatly bothered me. What I later discovered was that he felt the feelings but had no clue how to express them. He had spent so much time being UN-sexual that he felt that he just couldn't do an about face and be sexual all of a sudden--he'd look ridiculous to me. He did make those changes sloooooooooowly but surely.
Give her some time to really internalize the message she read and to steel herself up to really make some long lasting changes. I'm afraid if you rush it, you will push her away.
Congrats on the good talk with her and the positive direction that your life seems to be taking!
Wow Honeypot, That was a really good thing for me to hear right now. I've always been aware of how the "pressure" would negatively affect W but it's easy to forget at certain times. I give lip-service to this by telling W to relax and take her time. I assured her that I'm not expecting her to approach this with similar intensity.
Of course she SEES what I'm doing and that might add pressure, but I think that showing my interest in (me) becoming a great partner and husband is not a bad thing...it reminds her that there is a goal. Leading by example etc.
I'm trying to gauge it like I do my job and create an environment like one I would like to work in...secure but with clearly defined deadlines (boundaries).
Actually, I think business books might be good resources for relationship repair..for example, there is the idea of SMART goals...(specific, measurable, acceptable, realistic, and timely).
Sorry, this is scattererd. i've got to get back to work. I'll clarify these thoughts tonight.
...there's a nice thought). I told her that I had 2 new books which each approach "sexual healing" through different ways. The first is a Tantric book for men which has great things in it. It reinforces the SSM book that simply being together strengthens the bond and it recommends a daily "devotion" of 5-10 minutes of being "physically connected without movement"...just breathing. Sure the Tantra stuff is a little bit new agey, but there were some great principles and practical advice. The second book I got was the Great American Sex Diet which has a 28 program and looks really fun but it's probably too much for W right now. Once again though, it reinforces the SSM idea of "doing it". What makes this book special is the before and after photos of average, real couples...extremely nice to see an old grey couple in love. I tried to get a read on which direction she would like to take our sex-life. I probably need to let her read them in a few months and decide for herself which direction to go.
) but she is definitely not ready for the shock yet 
!