Complex #5 - progress and throwbacks

[susana4]

Hi Complex,
I've been following the last few days but didn't have anything useful to add but I wanted to chime in on the money thing, in case another perspective helps.

Thought I'd offer you another female perspective, but one who's pretty financially independent. Prior to my marriage I lived on my own and am used to taking care of all my own finances. I make about the same as H, which I'm happy with. I would not be averse to offering financial support for a limited period of time, say if H were between jobs. Likewise, I wouldn't mind if H did the same for me. But I wouldn't be comfortable long term if H were supporting me, nor would I be happy to continue to support him.

I think I would start to get very resentful if I had to financially support him in the long term. I don't think it's a matter of wanting a man to support me, and I don't plan on having children either so that wouldn't play into the equation - but it would be a matter of me resenting him being dependent on me. Does that make sense?

I would probably be thinking along the lines of "who is this man that can't support himself?" I think it would make him appear less of an adult in my eyes, less someone I could respect. In the same way so many of us here got into trouble because we became emotionally dependent in our marriages. It's not good to be dependent on someone else in any sense.

I don't know your W so I don't know what's going through her head. But I think in her shoes I would be thinking, not "why doesn't he earn as much/more than me"
but rather - "omg, he does NOT earn enough to support himself let alone both of us. What if I get ill or have an accident and need to stop working for awhile? What would we do? He doesn't earn enough money! Everything is on me!" (and that's a lot of pressure)

I think you need to get yourself into a position where you can support yourself, whatever happens, like Toots says. I wouldn't think of it as a competition to earn more than her, but you do need to earn enough to support YOU. How can you up your income?

About the talk - try and stay as calm as possible, and go in knowing that she may ask for S. Hopefully some vets will chime in here with advice.

Good luck!

[sandi2]

But then she reminded me of getting my greencard stuff done. I still have 1.5 month to turn it in. She just wants to get this done she said wheh I asked why or if there's a rush?

This has been a sore spot for her. And you have admitted to low motivation. I hate paperwork too, but why not do a 180 here? Just get it done! Doesn't it make sense that it would relieve a little pressure and she wouldn't have to play like your mother trying to get you to do this......again?

Let me explain. We women want to give emotional support to our loved ones, especially our H. There is a line between supporting and mothering. If she has to act like a mother b/c you are behaving like a little boy.........that just kills any hope of attraction right there!

My H has low motivation, too. To me, he never seemed to have much self discipline and took no initiative in most things. He was a "nice guy" who turned very passive after we M. Me? Of course, I was the totally opposite. I promise you, he almost drove me to point of insanity waiting for him to make a decision.....or to just make a movement so I'll know he's still breathing! He really isn't quite that bad, but close. He simply doesn't have the drive or see the use in doing some things. His answer is, "It will be there tomorrow". Can you understand how this could be seen as laziness? After all this time together, I happen to know he is not lazy, but his way is certainly challenging for me. And to be honest, it has hindered the attraction department.

You are young and healthy. Start making these changes while you can.

[Complex]

Regarding the greencard: I thought I'll procrastinate on purpose to buy myself time before the big D is coming. But you might be right, a month more or less probably won't change anything in my sitch but I need to show her my maturity.

What do you think about the talk she wants to have tonight? Are there any key messages I should think about or mostly just listen to what she said, agree and let her go? I don't want to talk too much or say something she could interpret wrong. And I'm scared I'll get too nervous.
Thanks

[zew]

Complex, just get the green card done. Don't tie it into timing with the D that may or may not be - you can't control the D with the green card.

Show your W that you are able to take care of some things for yourself without her reminders. Show some motivation here to pick yourself up and get moving in some direction all on your own.

And until that green card is in your hands, all manner of things can go wrong which will impact your ability to stay here -- you don't want to risk that -- just do it. Heute!

[Complex]

In the talk I can only think of two things I'd like to say/do:

1. Take full responsibility for not being responsible enough in our M, for settling and being lazy, not working hard enough towards our future, for not listening to her concerns and worries and dreams not understanding her enough. (Maybe the financial part is enough and I can skip the rest bc I told her that too many times)

2. Tell her I'm ready to let her go.


Any suggestions on how to word it properly? I don't wanna blame, sound desparate etc. just straight forward ..and mostly listen to what she has to say.

I'm sure tho she will want to figure out things about S. Which I haven't fully thought of. Right now I'm just making sure I'll make enough money to survive soon. I thought the rest is on her. But eventually we have to work this out together. I don't want this and want to buy time but I don't want her to feel like she has to parent me. That will not help my cause...
Thanks

[Starsky309]

You're still trying to do this with WORDS, Complex.

GRAND PRONOUNCEMENTS.

Your wife will ultimately be influenced by your ACTIONS, not more of your WORDS.


Starsky

[Complex]

I know that, but she wants to "talk". What am I gonna do? Sit there and say nothing?
She will think I'm an immature fool who has nothing to respond.
So how should I react? I don't wanna do grand pronouncements, just a sincere apology and appreciation and assuring I won't pressure her anymore. All backed up by continuing what I'm doing right now anyway.

She will expect cooperation to find solutions in our living situation eventually. I either shut up and she thinks I'm still imature or I cooperate but then I validate and help her with the separation, the one I ultimately don't want but there's nothing I can do, but I don't want to make it easier for her and help her to D me.
Get it?

[Starsky309]

I know that, but she wants to "talk". What am I gonna do? Sit there and say nothing?

No, you VALIDATE. Re-read the "Validation" thread on the Newcomers forum, if you haven't read it lately.

[25yearsmlc]

Complex,

As requested, I'm catching up on your thread.

So since we still live together and nothing has changed in our situation except of that a R just doesn't exist anymore I start to feel "bad" spending our money. I'm reasonable but I needed some new stuff, clothes and college things etc. She is basically paying the morgage fully. I don't make much money still. Although I started a couple new jobs/extending hours in my other job that will bring home at least a few more hundred up to a thousand dollars home a months. But she is still the bread giver.

Fyi, the term is "Breadwinner", and it's an American idiom I cannot explain.

My mom is French and I couldn't explain why "Breadwinner" made more sense than "Breadgiver", to her either. I sort of prefer your version...

I know she's the one who wants out but I think I should acknowledge that she still supports me? The whole thing makes me look "weak" and not attractive bc she's above me socially ..and will be for a long time to come. I could never compete with her income, it's just way to high and if she goes back to school it'll be ridiculously high. I know it's incredibly important to her that I am going back to school, catching up a degree here...but it's far away, at least 4-5yrs. And my income level will probably always be lower than hers.


I'm curious as to why you say this^^. What is it you do, versus what she does? Didn't you say she's a nurse? Yes they make decent livings, (I have 3 in my family) but would not describe it as "wealthy".


I'm working really hard on myself tho. She must notice.

But it is not THE reason you are working on yourself so what she notices cannot be your focus. Seriously, take your eye OFF of her. This is no way to live.

I have to become financially independent either way, but I know this is an important factor for her.


Newsflash, being financially independent IS an important factor to most of us. And women who want to be mothers someday want to know that IF they were to stay home with their babies, they could.

Right or wrong, fair or unfair, men are usually still expected to be the providers who put food on the table and keep a roof over our heads. I think it's partly biological b/c until we had children, money wasn't such a factor to me. I was among the least materialistic people I knew.

But when I became pregnant, years earlier than we had "planned", I was A LOT more calm and at peace b/c I knew that h could provide.

To me it felt like he was protecting me and our unborn child, by working hard at a job that paid well. Yes it's attractive.

IF I were the breadwinner, I'd at least want to know that h could be a great stay at home dad AND OR a financial partner, making a decent contribution to the household income.




Her mom leaked that W is worried that I won't be able to support her when she's going back to school or if we would have children. Its worrying W significantly. It's one of the reasons she doesn't believe in us anymore.
I mean love isn't about money, but I understand her. And she is who she is. She's not focused on money, but she wants to be safe and have a supporting husband.


THIS^^ makes total sense to me. I'm VERY sorry if that hurts you, but it hits home to me.

I know very few women who don't find decent incomes, pretty much mandatory in a man. If that bothers my feminist friends, so be it. I still believe it to be true. I also want a man to be physically stronger than me,

and if there is a scary noise at night, I will back him up. But I don't want to be in front of my man, vis a vis an intruder.

Do you know what I'm trying to say here? Most women want a man who can provide AND protect, especially when there are children in the picture.


So should I really feel bad about spending, if I spend very reasonable (I am very reasonable with money in general)? My financial situation isn't sth I can change over night, so i can only show her I'm at least taking action right? But in her eyes it'll probably be too little too late!? Is it ok to genuinely thank her for her support?

Like Starsky said, no grand pronouncements. Just ACT and DO and follow thru.

IF the purchases are made to enhance your income (b/c they are in effect, "investments") then let her know your reasoning. And make sure they are reasonable purchases.

I would not, for example, think that buying new work out clothes is very defensible, b/c who cares how you look while you exercise? Same for anything related to surfing...

but if it's a suit & tie for a work interview, that is different.

Make sense? For GAL< are you doing enough to increase income or your income potential?

IF she has told her family that your dropping out of school and losing ambition was a factor in how she viewed you


and respect for a man is a KEY piece of love a w has for her h, then don't dismiss that.

[Complex]

It's truly interesting how I got to the point where I am right now, talking about the finances and responsibility part. Because I think this is one of the biggest factors in my sitch which was overseen for a long time.
This combined with the ambition my W has by nature (btw she makes like 90k as a nurse, if she goes back to school to become a NP, it almost doubles..to me this is wealth^^) I see the big imbalance in our relationship. This was not meant to last forever. Education, job and career are very much out of balance indeed.
So it's all no wonder. And she told me her worries. Many times.
I didn't hear her. I felt safe and settled.

Thanks Susana, toots and 25yr for providing a women's perspective. It's almost eye opening. On the other hand I tried very hard to compensate. I'm a very helpful man, I took care of most of the household and took care of some additional income. I'd be a great father. I thought that'd be enough. She loved it too. I cooked for her, I did almost everything..a women's dream of a man at home I was.....but I couldn't keep up with her ambitions.

I was always independent btw. Never got much money from my parents. Here tho I committed to building up a business with not a lot of income right now, but also a lot of potential to make a lot of money within the next few years. My W agreed on this that I should take that chance. Few months later she dropped the bomb on me and thej she was wondering why I'm not really progressing in the job. Iwas devastated.
So there's two sides to the whole thing but I don't wanna defend myself too much. I KNOW I could've done more to improve my situatiom.

Now I am where I am. And I'm still kind of new to this country. Back in school. I'm doing hourly payd office work for the company now too and drive for Uber on the weekends where I can make 2-400$ on a weekend extra on the side. All new things I've done. But of course it'll take time for W to see. And to reach a better income level I either have to drop the commitment to work for the conpany I'm woth right now, or be patient, finish school...etc


The talk tonight I'll read the validation thread right away. I'll open a new thread now. This only has a couple posts left

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