barely holding on - 7

[Sotto]

"What was it that tipped you off? Was it the way I said "now would be the time" ? ;)"

I loved that one!!

[u-turn]

We haven't really talked about what we need to do or what we need to agree to yet. I'm hoping we can talk this weekend about this. At this time I would like to talk about my deal breakers

I need HONESTY (and openness) and FAITHFULNESS - that is it. Not asking for much in my opinion.

I believe that is it, I have not experienced anything else that I would consider to be a deal breaker.

I will keep searching for this. I have been hurt, but feel like I can throw that away if I can get honesty and faithfulness.


Thanks everyone for your support - I have been very busy today, but will write more later

[Sotto]

U Turn, have you re-read the infidelity chapter in DR? That contains some useful stuff about the healing process and some things you may want to consider before you and your W talk further.

Pleased to hear that things are turning for you...

[Starsky309]

Before you have this conversation, make sure you thoroughly study up on no-contact and TRANSPARENCY. There's a huge difference between "honesty/faithfulness" and "transparency."

Honesty and faithfulness are the goals, the non-negotiable standards. Transparency is the "constitution" that governs the goals.

Think the difference between telling an alcoholic spouse "Well, I would need you to be sober," and telling them "The spouse that I recommit to will need to demonstrate their commitment to sobriety by entering themself into a formal "12-step" type program, and remaining 100% committed to it. Whether or not that's you, only you can decide, but it's an absolute deal-breaker for me."

[PeterV2]

Wow, U-turn. What a roller coaster. Seems we're running fairly parallel here, but my W has not indicated any desire to fix our M.

The only thing she said was she'll stop contact with OM. But she hasn't been home for the past 2 nights. I believe she is staying with girlfriends as she's been calling & texting me, but there's always that nagging feeling that she's lying and sleeping with him.

I need to bring it up again and tell her I'm not willing to live in an open marriage. You said you would end contact. I need proof of that. Here are 3 versions of a no contact letter I've prepared or you can write your own, but I need to approve it before you send it to him. And then I need to be able to see you phone and for you to open up your computer to me. If you're not willing to do that then it's over between us. I'll get a mediator involved to hammer out the terms of separation and divorce. - Maybe a little aggressive, but definitely stating my boundaries.

I really believe transparency is essential. But other think that the transparency plan should come from the WAS. I don't think that's realistic. Like Starsky says, it's time to take the lead.

[u-turn]

It has been a roller coaster and it seems like I have just bought a ticket for a different ride.

W is acting like a completely different person than she has in the last year. She said she feels like she getting back to controlling herself, seeing things clearly, able to make decisions again, she wants to try and figure out how this mess happened... I hope this is the fog lifting as I have heard around here before.

She is wanting to hold my hand whenever we are close to each other. It feels good, but I am cautious.

She hasn't expressed any kind of remorse or even said she was sorry. I don't know if she ever will feel that way, and I really don't need that either. I just want to be sure this is real.

I really don't know if I want to push too hard with a request for a NC letter or transparency yet. I worry that will scare the squirrel off. I am ok with trying to get her to join me on my picnic blanket right now.

I know she has asked me what she can do for me, but if I slam her with these demands right now - I don't know how she will react. I have told her that I have a lot of thinking to do before I know what I need. She said she will wait.

I still do not know if I believe all of this, even though I don't have a definite reason not to (besides past lies and deceit).

I am digging deep into what I think will make this work for me. I really would like to see a NC statement from her as well as full transparency. I would like this to come from her, but I don't know if that will ever happen. Best bet is to work together on this and have her feel like it is best for her and her idea (good luck with that - right?)

We talked for a while yesterday about us - her request. We did have a lot of non-R conversation yesterday - which hasn't happened in a long time.

She told me she loved me this morning and hugged me. There have been other signs that I have noticed that this is actually happening (jewelry that I have internally questioned where she acquired is now gone, less sexy dress this week(sad to say, but I know this wasn't for me anyway)...)

All good signs, now I want to take my time and do this right. NO MORE SCREW UPS.

I feel myself coming out of my detachment and that scares me too. I am starting to have expectations, making internal plans for us. All of this worries me that I am setting myself up for another slap. I want to keep my own personal forward progress too.

If I do make a statement to her, if we do have another conversation, I would like to say that I was ready to move forward with or without you. I am happy to see that you are moving in my direction, but I would like to know what your thoughts are on how we can move forward together and rebuild our trust in each other. (I want this to be her idea).

A major trigger to this whole debacle a year ago was my mishandling of my mistrust, jealousy, and lack of proper communication about this (though I now see that this was falling apart much earlier than this).

I am re-reading DR and trying to learn more before I make any more mistakes.

Thanks for everyone's help here!!!

[Sotto]

U-turn, I think this is absolutely the time for you to be telling your W what you need in order to reconcile. I wouldn't wait until she 'offers' stuff or until you are further along. This is the prime time to be seeking IMHO - although I'm no vet:

Confirmation of NC - letter agreed and dispatched
Transparency arrangements
Anything further like MC which may help you move past what has happened.

It is great that your W is behaving as she now is, but please don't be scared of 'upsetting the apple cart' and fail to ask for what you need. If your W is absolutely serious about reconciling and repairing things, I think she will need some guidance from you on what is required.

Also, you say that your W isn't expressing any kind or remorse or has said she is sorry and you don't know if she will feel that way and you really don't need that - Really?

I guess what I'm saying is please don't put aside your own needs in order to keep timid squirrel coming forward and miss the 'window' to ask for what you need.

[T-Mom]

U,

I'm just checking in with you here and all this new stuff is happening for you! I am glad for you, understand your trepidation, and hope you get what you want and need, regardless of direction.

[HPoirot]

I'm really happy for this new good turn in your sitch U. I'm praying for you.

[u-turn]

Thanks Toots - I feel that you are right. I have tried to file my feelings away for a very long time. It does not help me. She is still getting closer to me, but I am still leery of it and I am distracted by my uncertainty. I am having a very hard time trying to enjoy this moment (and maybe that's a good thing to keep me realistic).

I feel like I need to have the conversation and tell her what will help me. She told me one time that it was over with OM - it has not been mentioned by her or I since.

She asks me every morning what I am thinking/feeling (she hasn't done that in a year). I tell her a little bit, but still am not sharing all of my feelings (I am worried she will use this against me some how). She still is wanting to touch me (hold my hand and get close to me) when we are together.

I asked her if the other night if this was real. She said yes and then said "I am sorry that I had my head up my a$$ - I don't know what I was thinking." This is as much of an apology as I have ever gotten.

I also told her the other night that I was a little scared by this because I did not want to get hurt again. She said that those are valid feelings.


When I tell her about my need for no contact with OM (and a letter stating this) I wonder what this distrust will trigger in her?

I think that the need for transparency may go ok with some of her information if I tell her that I am still going to be open , honest and transparent with her. She has always had full access to all of my stuff - I don't care and have nothing to hide.

I think that I may need these things because I am not feeling better about this - I still am having a very hard time trusting her.

Thanks T-Mom and HP - It feels good to have you on my side. Good luck to you