Quote: Do you think same sex couples have this much trouble talking to each other?
Interesting... the other night Leno told a joke about that very thing. The punch-line being that gay couples would have nothing to fight about - it'd be boring. As in "Hey, let's watch figure skating tonight." "Okay." "Hey, do you want to take in an opera tonight?" "Yeah, that'd be great!"
Quote: I hope I won't sound fatuous if I point out that to know so much about yourself and your own motivations and hangups, and the trouble they're causing for you, and be willing to live with them instead of doing something about them is something you might want to think about...
I am seeing a sex therapist to work through all of this, yes.
Glad to hear it, Pam. I'm going to be VERY interested in any info you can give me on that, as I'm hoping W will see one also, but I don't really know much about them. I'm not worried about it, I just would like to know what kind of things they work on...
BTW, I am also learning MUCH about myself these days, most of it right here. I do agree, tho, I will probably be in therapy myself before too long...
Quote: I wrote: I admit, when our R was "new" I masked my hangups so I guess you could call me a bait and switch.
When I met my H, I was at a low point in my life... as silly as that may sound considering I was only 21 at the time! Every relationship I'd been in went bad and I was afraid that I'd never meet the man of my dreams. I was scared, insecure and impatient. I wanted to be married before having children and I wanted to have my children before I turned thirty. I'm a bit of a plan freak, I like to map out my life to a fault. I'm begining to realize that I need to chill out and just live like everyone else. It must be part of being a survivor of sexual abuse.
I met my H through a telephone dating service. We both had ads in the singles looking for a monogamous relationship section and we instantly clicked when we first spoke. His voicemail style ad stated his height, weight, hair colour, etc. and that he was looking for someone to sweep off her feet. I couldn't resist that and left a message. We moved in together three months later and have been monogamous since. He proposed 2 years later and we got married 1.5 years after that. We had our first child two years later and then another two years later, our last child. Sounds perfect.
I never realized until about a month ago that I was kidding myself. I haven't been honest with my H nor myself. I've been living a fantasy; something I thought I wanted and needed. I'm now at the point where I'm ready to really wake up and get real. Why waste my H's life and happiness as well as mine? I've been selfish, controlling and dishonest for the past ten years. I don't want to go on for another ten, twenty, whatever. H deserves to meet someone who isn't going through the motions for the sake of saving face, for the kids, for security. I've been living in "quiet desperation" and trying to keep the peace as much as possible.
Following some of the threads on here has been heart breaking. Dave36 strikes me as such a loveable guy, but his latest posts have made me step back and really look at myself.
Quote: Dave36 wrote: I'm now asking myself a very hard question...why do I love someone I'm completely opposite of. I set goals and achieve them. She has never set a goal, but whines about not achieving anything. Her kindness and niceness have made up for all of these things. She runs the house better than anyone I've ever met and she's a great mother. I should consider myself lucky for these good things...but I would trade most of these attributes in for a passionate love-life. At this point it is strictly out of duty as a father, peer pressure, fear of the uncertainty, guilt, lack of money to afford a D. In the WAW examples, the W nags, then stops, then the H thinks everything is great...then bam, the W leaves. I'm seeing this possibility because I think my "effort" is essentially the same as "nagging" because she is interpreting it as "pressure" to do something.
This aspect is killing me...I'm trying to reconnect with W only to find out that she's not someone I should be interested in.
This effort might have been a mistake. ...now I just want to unleash a holy hailstorm of angry words in her direction and have her feel the pain inside me.
I still just cant understand why a person wouldn't want more of that "tingly" feeling you get when you kiss and touch each other. Why deny it. What the F! Are you just plain stupid?
I'm sorry to be such a bummer on here when I was trying so hard to be a good wife, but I just can't do it. I give up.
{Aquarian}, You know better than any LD what you have to do. You've read the books, been on this forum and posted 228 messages and that is enough theory. It's time to put it into practice. Bite the bullet, take Michele's advice and "JUST DO IT". We all love you to bits Aquarian and desperately want you to find your way. Once you are "Just doing it" bring all your worries here and me and the 'dog, CeMar, Dave36, Corri, Tim47 and everyone will be here to help you. SD xxx
Hey, are you absolutely certain you aren't kidding yourself now?? These dark feelings can be brought on by depression, or any number of things. Believe me, I KNOW how hard it can be to carry on when it seems like things are hopeless, but you MUST not give up!
Questions: Do you love H? Does he love you?
"He'd be better off without me" is a dangerous conceit. Yes, things may not be a bed of roses at the moment (understatement of the CENTURY), but KEEP TRYING!! Go and read in the Divorce Remedy forum - read the first chapter (I bet you even have the book, don't you?) Do you REALLY think that giving up will solve the problem? Are you SURE there's nothing left to try?
You seem really motivated to improve things, at least you did up until this post. I always felt you really had things together. Please tell me you're just in a funk!
Well this is the second time that I've posted and I'm having a hard time with this one. You see my wife feels like I would be happier with someone else and she feels like she has been not true to herself. She made reference to living in "Quiet desperation" trying to make it all work for the kids sake, security or due to finances. Our mariage has been missing something for a long time that both of us seem to be missing (passion, communication, tenderness, quality time together). Because our sexlife is suffering, the focus seems to be on this which maybe too soon and too fast. We need to go back to the basics. I'm HD and W is LD, I really thought that my top love language was pyshical, but I've been giving it alot of thought and now sure that WOA is number one. You see, I cherish the little gestures like a soft carress, a rub on the back after a hard day at work, a warm heart felt embrace. As an HD, if the physical is only sexual and not really mutual, that is not fullfilling, but if it is pysical was mutual and passionate inside and outside the bedroom them that would be fullfilling. I Love my wife with all my heart and soul, my happiness comes from her so it's been hard lately for both of us. I wrote my wife a letter not too long ago saying that I would do whatever it takes and that we would climb this mountain together. I guess I should have also told her that there isn't a rush as I'm willing and wanting a life time of happiness not a few quick moments. So I'm here to ask you "Aquarian" will you climb this mountain with me to happiness? To all the other members of the board like HD, SD, Corri, any suggestions that might help me try to better understand my wife.
Aquarian I LOVE YOU!
ConfusedH
Don't give up now!! You're just having a down day. Everyone has that and you have been doing so well. Don't read too much into what Dave36 says. He was just venting. This is our ranting place so don't be too disheartened by what you read. I am sure he loves his wife dearly or he would not be here trying so hard.
Step back and ease off some of that pressure of yourself. What matters most is that you are trying. As you know, most HD spouses we have around here are in total denial and therefore not even trying. We'd all give anything to have our Hs/Ws just TRY!
You said "I'm trying so hard to be a good wife but I just can't do it." Don't be so hard on yourself. Although this is an SSM forum and discussions are focussed on this area, I am sure you know deep down that being a good wife is so much more than just working on this area of your life. And we all know that you are working hard in trying to understand your Hs POV, in trying to communicate with him, in understanding his LL and trying to fulfill those. Intimacy is an an important area to work on but then so are being a good companion, confidant, good mother, I could go on and on. So don't be dishearted and keep up your good work.
I knew who you were before I got to the third line of your message.
The message from Pam sounded so different from the messages I've been reading over the past couple of months (after her initial problem with you being naughty after she went to sleep). She has been so upbeat. Suddenly, she's talking about leaving. WTF? You guys must've had a fight, and that's none of my business, but the two of you seem to have come so far in just a couple of months.
Pam, chill out. Don't do anything rash. Remember that one of the only things within your control is your attitude and the reactions you have to what happens around you. You can choose to see everything as bad or dark, or you can choose to see everything as a lesson from which to learn. This guy obviously loves you. It took him a lot of courage to come on here, in the middle of a bunch of Pam supporters, and admit who he was. I give him big gobs of credit. In fact, since I am unable to, could you give him a big sloppy kiss from Hairdog?
Mr. Pam (I'm not going to call you "confused H" because, face it, we're ALL confused), stick with her. The biggest virtue we HDs can have is patience. Treat her with respect and loving kindness. Be confident. Take a shower at least once a week whether you need it or not. How can she resist you?
What you've said means a lot. I'm glad to see you're supportive of Pam, because I was worried that the reason she was giving up had to do with a non-supportive or demanding spouse. I'm glad also to see that you've been lurking here, as that is a great way to truly understand her. I wonder how many of our spouses are lurking here, reading our posts? It would be good, I think, if there were more. Maybe the thing you both need to work on more than anything at this point is the issue of trust. If she's afraid you can't "control yourself" (re the sleep-attack thing) she may not be able to be responsive. Maybe she feels she's doing all the work, and needs more of a committment from you to working on the real issues. I don't know...
Not to tout "yet another book", but yesterday W showed me a book she bought a while ago (which I knew nothing about!) by Dr. Phil, called "Relationship Rescue". Yeah, I know, Dr. Phil is sort of like the McDonalds of psychology at the moment, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have something meaningful to say at least once in a while. Also, as good as Michele's books are, they can't be the ONLY resource we make use of. Anyway, I had a look at Dr. Phil's book and it looks like a GOOD one. One section deals with "Exploding the 10 myths of a great marriage". One of those myths is "Sex has nothing to do with a great marriage" (or is it, "A great marriage has nothing to do with sex"?). Anyway, I naturally read what he had to say about that myth, and found it very wise and profound. One thing he said was that when a couple has a good sex life together, that issue might rate as a 3 or 4 on the scale of Importance in the relationship, but when the sex life is suffering, it becomes a 9 or 10 in importance. It becomes the main focus of the relationship, for at least one of the partners. I know that's abundantly true in my case. I didn't read any further than that, but I'm looking forward to reading that entire book - it may be of help.
I'm not sure at this point what can be done about it, as you can tell from reading my other posts. However, I do know that if Pam does truly Give Up, it will leave me and a lot of others with a LOT less hope for our own situations. If someone as committed and motivated as Pam gives up, what hope is there? That would be a sad day indeed.
