You know, I think that a lot of women initiate in very subtle ways, such as jutting their bottoms out so that contact is inevitable..or positioning their bodies in such a way that their breasts are rightthere. Or they put their legs up on their husbands. Or rub their husbands stomachs, things like that.
The problem with such actions is that there is too much room for misinterpreting it. And what on one night would be considered her initiating would some other night be considered her just wanting to cuddle. The line is too blurry. So we HD people misinterpret the signals and either miss out on an opportunity (WHY they can't just say, Hey I was trying to initiate but you're missing it, silly!) or we read too much into an innocent affection and then look like an ass for trying.
I know that my H gets a lot more affectionate when he wants sex. I usually realize this after the fact, I am sorry to say. Because it is the usual affection--pecks, hugs--just more of them. So I think he is just being lovey dovey. You'd think I'd catch on but I have conditioned myself to NOT read sex into his every move so that I am not continually disappointed.
One of these days I will get my nerve up and when H starts kissing me more I will realize what he is up to and suggest we make love that night. Keep your fingers crossed that I am not wrong about these signals of his!
Quote: What I didn't know or expect was her rejection of my giving her oral sex (which I love, and miss) and her general LD/ND problem. It's been six months now, and I miss it so bad.
Wow, that hit me like a ton of bricks. For me, though, it's been more like 8 years (and counting). She just informed me one day that she didn't want that anymore. Ever! Talk about rejection!
This was one of my favorite things, and I would gladly engage in this for as long as she could stand it! I would happily take direction, because that meant I'd get to do it longer! Man, how I miss it!
If she instead restricted me to just that one thing, I'd be a happy man! I know there's a lot more I want to say on this topic, but I can't think at the moment...
Actually Dave, some HDW initiate that way too. I guess its more subtle but at least my H usually gets it or used to but I don't initiate anything anymore because I am too afraid of rejection. Hey, even my words get rejected and my sexy emails ignored. My self confidence gets a nose drive and these days I dare not even say anything anymore let alone initiate!
I definitely agree that when my wife initiates, it makes me feel desired. Unfortuately that's almost the only times in the past 10 years we have done anything because long ago i stopped trying to avoid the pain of rejection. Many times i would hear "i woke up kind of horny last night but you were sleeping". Geez. I have had standing orders to wake me up in that situation and reinforce that each time...still...i think that only happened once in the past 5 years that i was woken up. More recently when i brought up the topic of her initiating, i was told that she doesn't like it. It makes her feel 'manly'. Geez. This from a very fit woman with an hourglass figure. Who also feels fat when her waist is up 1/2 inch from ideal. ugh..sorry for that rant..sometimes we need to let it out.
If i try and initiate with something obvious "lets have sex" its too crude. If i get grabby, its either rude or taken as just playing around. If i get lovey and touchy...its a nice touch. A few weekends ago we were on a trip and on the way there i mentioned that i was horny. In bed the next morning i was very affectionate and loving with touches and carressing...nothing...later when asked about it she responded "well you've told me that i have the right to say no". Sure...but thats been exceptionally excessive.
Quote: CeMar said: Here is what I and many HD men want from our wives, women that LOVE to initiate sex, women that Love to give BJ's, especially without us having to ask. We want women that have no sexual hangups. If you want to make real deposits into your husbands love band, YOU MUST BE THE AGRESSOR. When the woman is the agressor, the sex counts for about 10x more then when I am the agressor. Womens sexual hangups are THE CAUSE of SSM's.
I disagree. You can't pin the cause of SSM's solely on sexual hangups! What a bold statement for you to make. So many people have some kind of hangup... and not everyone is or can be an "agressor".
Quote: I said: Respects my sexual hangups (doesn't ask for bjs, initiates majority of the time, more later...)
Somehow, I knew that line would cause some grief! I admit, when our R was "new" I masked my hangups so I guess you could call me a bait and switch. However, we lived together for almost 3 years before our 1.5 year engagement. I'm pretty sure it became apparent during our first years that I preferred to offer BJs. I've also never been very partial to the taste of ejaculate, so I prefer to take it or wear it. My other hangups include not enjoying cunnalingus. I never have. I've never been able to let go and relax enough to enjoy it. I'm sure my H misses our 69 days, but that was fairly rare even in the beginning. This is deep rooted from walking in on my mother while my stepfather was "going to town" on her, when I was 9. I prefer to be in darkness but have ML in candlelight. My body image has also contributed significantly to my hangups; as I gained weight I felt less attractive and less sexy. I felt ridiculously inferior to porn stars, as silly as that may be. As for initiating... I believe in the very beginning, H did the initiating. I began to initiate about half of the time and then I think there was a short time when I was mostly initiating and he rejected me because he had acquired a friction burn! Over time, I think I got comfortable with him being the initiator simply because I felt that was the man's role... as silly as that may sound. I don't know. Maybe it's due to my religious upbringing? Maybe it's due to my dislike of porn? Maybe it's my little girl mentality that good girls don't ask for sex? Maybe I just prefer to be somewhat submissive? I am working on all of these and hope to one day be able to be completely uninhibited.
Quote: CeMar said: Since I make all the moves in regards to sex, how would I ever know if she desires me (i.e. Loves Me)? Remember, I see desire and love as the same thing (like most HD men). I am not expecting miracles, but some initiation is really necessary for the health of the marriage. My wife sees sex as her wifely duty, and I do not want this at all! Willingness to have sex is actually a turn-off for me.
Well Geee. I sure hope my H knows that I desire him when I have an orgasm, make sounds, look into his eyes, suggest a position or jutting my bottom out to him. I sure hope he knows that I desire him when I tell him that was great!! or that was nice!! or ask for a smoke afterwards!! If the only way your W can show you desire is to initiate... I'm really sorry. That's sad.
Quote: Honeypot said: You know, I think that a lot of women initiate in very subtle ways, such as jutting their bottoms out so that contact is inevitable..or positioning their bodies in such a way that their breasts are rightthere. Or they put their legs up on their husbands. Or rub their husbands stomachs, things like that. The problem with such actions is that there is too much room for misinterpreting it. The line is too blurry.
Maybe we should have another survey to see how LD spouses initiate, successfully. Myself, I initiate by caressing my H's inner thighs. I come right out and ask if he wants to ML. I stroke his penis and give him a (mini) BJ and then tell him I want him inside me.
Quote: SuperDave said: I'm ashamed to say that I turned her down on that hillside (Ilkley Moor) but then there was this hairy guy walking a Boxer dog and watching...
Thank you SuperDave and Hairdog for the comic relief! You two are such a hoot.
Quote: My other hangups include not enjoying cunnalingus. I never have. I've never been able to let go and relax enough to enjoy it. I'm sure my H misses our 69 days, but that was fairly rare even in the beginning. This is deep rooted from walking in on my mother while my stepfather was "going to town" on her, when I was 9. I prefer to be in darkness but have ML in candlelight. My body image has also contributed significantly to my hangups; as I gained weight I felt less attractive and less sexy. I felt ridiculously inferior to porn stars, as silly as that may be.
I hope I won't sound fatuous if I point out that to know so much about yourself and your own motivations and hangups, and the trouble they're causing for you, and be willing to live with them instead of doing something about them is something you might want to think about...
Quote --------- it's not the frequency that is the problem, but who initiates it. Initiating sex SHOWS that you are desired. My wife has not initiated sex in 8 years. If I have to initiate the sex, I will hardly even give her credit for having sex --------
I don't think this is very fair, sorry, its the way I see it. All I was saying is whats wrong with both of you initiating sex? If you could get her to the point of initiating sex say about 30% of the time, wouldn't that show you she loves you? If you could get her to that point, would that not be a BIG improvement? The way you were talking sounded like unless she initiated sex 100% of the time you would still not be happy? Is there no compromise with you?
I understand the need for physical fulfilment, believe me, I know, but there has to be a compromise somewhere in the equation between 2 seemingly different people. You have to be willing to come down just a little and she has to be willing to go up some. Wheather we like it or not people and situations change. Change happens everyday. We, as intelligent humans have to be willing to make changes to deal with it. I'm not saying you have to learn to live without anything physical, just that maybe you need to compromise with her to make it better for yourself.
I would be incredibly happy if the wife initiated 30% of the time, currently it is 0%. It will never get to 30% of the time, as that would probably require REAL DESIRE from her.
Now for compromise, I would like my marriage to return to the wa it was during the first four years. Lot's of kissing, snuggling, sex everyday, wife initiating sometimes, lot's of naked time together, multi orgasmic sex that takes and hour or two, and most importantly BJ'S. Now the sex is once a month, I start it, I give 45 minutes of foreplay, then she gives me 5-10 minutes of just straight sex. THat is sex 12 times a year. If I cut MY needs by 2/3, that still means sex more then 100+ times a year. And the toughest part of all, I want to know that she WANTS to have sex with me, no more of this "Hurry up and get done so I can get to sleep" crap.
By the way, why does it seem that ND/LD spouses always seem to value sleep over sex? Why are these people always tired? I am NEVER to tired for sex!
My other hangups include not enjoying cunnalingus. I never have. I've never been able to let go and relax enough to enjoy it. I'm sure my H misses our 69 days, but that was fairly rare even in the beginning. This is deep rooted from walking in on my mother while my stepfather was "going to town" on her, when I was 9. I prefer to be in darkness but have ML in candlelight. My body image has also contributed significantly to my hangups; as I gained weight I felt less attractive and less sexy. I felt ridiculously inferior to porn stars, as silly as that may be. As for initiating... I believe in the very beginning, H did the initiating. I began to initiate about half of the time and then I think there was a short time when I was mostly initiating and he rejected me because he had acquired a friction burn! 
Over time, I think I got comfortable with him being the initiator simply because I felt that was the man's role... as silly as that may sound. I don't know. Maybe it's due to my religious upbringing? Maybe it's due to my dislike of porn? Maybe it's my little girl mentality that good girls don't ask for sex? Maybe I just prefer to be somewhat submissive? I am working on all of these and hope to one day be able to be completely uninhibited.