Gogofo - LRT letter - planning a new beginning

[Drew]

Well, assuming things are similar in your state:

This is only the initial response and it will be relatively cut and dried, point by point.

Yes, respondent agrees they are married and have children.

No, we do not agree to primary custody for the mother.

And so on.

So the judge will set a court date out in the future for you to come back with an agreement if possible. Maybe, issue temporary orders on custody and finances.

So, like it or not, it's already going to go before a judge.

[gogofo]

Maybe it would be better to tell your wife that you interpreted her complaint as having sole custody of the kids which conflicts with the joint custody that was discussed. Hear what she has to say in response, say nothing yourself and leave it at that. No 'what you're doing' or when, how, why.

Would that work for you?

That could be another approach. I just feel I need to say something and figure out what is going on with the D. Don't want to be left in the dark.

[Drew]

Do you want to work on the divorce with her or the marriage?

Pretty standard advice around here is to work on the marriage, leave the divorce to the lawyers.

[gogofo]

I want to work on the M, she does not. She had me served and said two weeks ago that she was done trying.

So where does that leave me?

I feel like the person I should be would not be afraid to ask her about the D status. I would be brave enough to talk about difficult subjects.

The L stuff just annoys the crap out of me. The way they can take simple actions and make them so convoluted is amazing.

She did ask me for my net monthly pay. I could give her the numbers tonight and then get into the D status talk and the custody issue.

I may be dense, but I am trying to understand why I should not talk to her about the D.

[sandi2]

While the others are discussing legal stuff with you, I am going to reply to some things you've said since I posted to you last. I hope you won't be too distracted with everything else that's going on.

Again, not going to lie, I need a script or description of how I should interact with W after letting go.

I am scared I am so emotionally invested in not letting go that I will revert back to old tendencies.

I need some tips or ideas because right now I am feeling emotionally flooded and having a hard time coming up with ideas.

I really don't think you will follow it. You are not wanting to do this, so you won't stick to it. You are wanting to know how to interact "after" you let go. You have to let go "first" and you don't want to do it.

All you have to do is to stop acting like you are her H. Don't act like her BFF. Get away from her and stay away. Even if you have to get someone else to run interference. You are among the most co-dependent people I have seen here. Emotionally invested? I'll say! You act as if you cannot survive a single day without her. That is not a healthy MR. You smother her to death. You try to control her, and the outcome of the stitch......b/c of your own insecurities. Man this is not attractive, I don't care if you look like George or Brad. No woman, in her right mind, is going to want a man who [censored] up all the air around her. You are so desparate that you stooped to living in the basement of your home. And your kids see this! That is pitiful. What were you expecting out of this kind of behavior?

Let's look at what you said were your changes:

I have made numerous changes over the last year. Most of it were actionable items like helping around the house, planning dates, planning trips, making quality time, improved listening skills, developing empathy, listening to her ideas and wants more (still need improvement here). She has acknowledged my improvements when she felt positive about our R.

Every single one of these "changes" had a connection with her. How did you change that was independent of her? All of these things were you trying to win her back. In order to let go, you have to stop trying to win her back.

You know, Gogofo, most of us have tried to tell you to back off. When you thought you were in piecing, I told you that your pressuring her would push her further away. But you continued to do the same pursuing and controlling. Now she has filed and you still can't let go? I don't see that as some great, profound love. I see that as possession.

So, stop trying to "fix" the MR. You can't. Accept that fact. You just can't do it.

Stop doing the housework. Stop cooking. Stop catering to her. Stop supporting her. Stop rescuing her. Stop hanging out with her. Let her run her own life without your input.

You think "healthy" distancing might help her reconsider? It won't. First of all, you don't know what healthy distancing is. You aren't able to do it. You would use the kids as your excuse to contact her all the time. Try going dark distancing. That is your only hope.

The reason I haven't gone the acting D route is I feel I would be doing it out of wanting to punish the W or teach her a lesson. I know she would smell this a mile away as the action wouldn't be genuine.

Oh pleae! The reason you haven't gone that route is b/c you are scared sh'tless. Let's be honest here.

I

have made changes for me. I have restructured my work so it is not a large source of stress and time hog. I now do not let my work success dictate my happiness in my personal life, this was a big step for me. I have been working planning things out and being more proactive instead of reactive in my life. Trying to be more of a leader than a follower. My W would get frustrated waiting for me to make a decision or to do something, while at the same time I was waiting for her.

So let me ask this, how much of this was done in an attempt to save your M? I am not saying those were not good choices. I am saying that I still don't see what you have done independtly from trying to win your W back. The changes you make for yourself should be simply to improve yourself as a man.........regardless of your marital status. It is one thing to make changes for yourself and another to make changes in the MR. I just wonder if you have identified or separated the two.

I am not saying that everything you've done has been wrong. However, you went way too far in trying to be the H you thought it would take in order to win her back. How often would you get out of the house and leave her and the kids there alone? What did you do to GAL? What social activities were you involved in without your W? Ever do volunteer work? Hobbies?

Well, I suppose you gave that answer here:

I still need to work on GAL activities. I did great when we were apart. The physical separation allows me to plan things on days when I know I am going to be alone. When we are together I start to make excuses about GAL. I don't think I have the time because W would have to watch kids and she is busy with her job and doctoral classes, etc. I have the thought that "why is my time more important than her's?" I then stop to GAL as much, or at all, and focus on the M. Then the W feels swamped and overwhelmed and pressured.

Her view or opinion on this dance is that she said "I do so good when we are apart. Then we get back together and I stop doing things for myself. I stop seeing my friends or going out to have fun." I suggested an in-house separation and she told me "it would never work because I cannot leave her alone." She is correct about this.

so have you learned anything? Are you repeating the same mistakes?

It isn't about your love not being enough. It isn't about being the end or giving up hope. I think you are so unhealthy with her that you need to get away from her in order to get better. Seriously! You need to break emotionally and physically from her until you regain confidence and independence from this R. You will NEVER be able to let her go as long as you live under the same roof, or even have steady contact. You need to have space and time away with NC. Trust me, you can work things out about the kids without talking to each other. I have seen it done. You will get healthy enough that you can slowly incorporate a little contact.

You are killing any chance you have. Divorce is not always the end.

[gogofo]

Sandi, a lot of what you said to me hurt my feelings, I needed that. Thank you. I need the cold hard truth to break through this force field of insecurity I have built. Only the most ugly truth seems to be getting through right now.

You are right, I will have terrible trouble following the script or advice because of my codependency.

When agreeing to move to the basement I was too scared to fight back and scared I would be kicked out. I did not want to live in the house we were selling. I expected my compliance to hopefully change her mind because I was listening to her wishes. This is pitiful.

I need to dig deep and accept the fact that I cannot fix things. This is hard and like you said I could not back off and not pursue because I am dependent on her loving me and I thought I new better. My stepping away from the boards for a while was a VERY big mistake.

You are correct about using the kids as an excuse to see her. I used to ask to stay at the house until they fell asleep when we were separated.

I need to get it through my think skull that dark distancing is the only thing I can do to save me.

You are correct about me being scared sh'tless about acting D'ed. I am basically a hurt and scared little boy right now. I have lost a lot of confidence and self esteem.

About 90% of my changes were at first motivated or pointed at making changes in me for the M/R. I did have some personal goals about not being emotionally invested in my job. I did not have any hobbies. My hobby became reading R books and the forum. I would spend about 4 to 6 hours a day doing this at the beginning. I can now see how sick my codependency is.

I do have difficulty in working on things for myself instead of for the M. In retrospect I would do good with GAL and then attract my W back and then go right back to how I had been before. I am just so caught up in her and the M that I lack to ability to keep going with what works.

When we were separated I did good with GAL. The times we were together I would wait for "permission" to get out of the house or wait for her to tell me to go do something. Wow I have been acting the Pwooped wimp. How would this ever attract someone.

I have learned things. What I haven't learned is how to NOT revert back to pressure and smothering. I am repeating the same mistakes. She has a life, I don't. My life is her life, and it is not healthy for anyone.

Sandi, thanks for all the 2x4s. I need bluntness and a big f'ing mirror with all the ugly truth shown to me. I don't learn subtle lessons.

Here are my immediate dark goals.

1 - Do not discuss the D with W, have L send response tomorrow and let them deal with it. Be brave and strong about what ever may happen from this action. I do not need her permission to send a response. I am scared she will get upset, I don't want to live in fear.

2 - She is at dinner. When she gets home I will not be around her. I will be drinking wine and relaxing by myself. I will have to do this in the basement because I am not strong enough to do this if we are around each other. If she is near I will be watching her or engaging in conversation with her.

3 - I need to have her seek me out if she wants to talk to me.

4 - I need to visualize how pathetic I look by being the super husband while she has filed for a D. I need these visualizations to hurt and make me feel sick to my stomach so I can remember and train myself not to act like this anymore.

5 - I need to stop force feeding her cake.

[sandi2]

Thank you for taking it so well. I hate to see men live in fear of how their W will react, or scared to put any space between them. LBH's seem to have that in common. Their fear causes them to cling tighter, and they hurt themselves, in the end.

[gogofo]

Last night I did not see my W again after she left for a dinner fund raiser.

I took the kids for a ride and fueled up my truck. Tucked the kids into bed and kissed them good night.

I grabbed a glass of wine and went and laid on my bed and read a biography, NOT a relationship book.

When my W came home I resisted my temptation to go and engage her in conversation.

Here is what I will be doing today that will focus on being brave and letting go.

1 - Call L this morning and have him send response to complaint.
2 - Text W a message with my monthly net income to move along the D process.
3 - Meet plumbers at house to fix issue that came up during inspection
4 - When I get home after work keep interaction with W minimal when we are around the kids together.
5 - Meet with my dad and get fire door for the house.
6 - Not be around or up waiting for her when she get home after teaching night class.

I know what I did last night was small, but I am proud of myself for resisting temptation to talk to W and for reading something for pleasure.

Sandi showed me my true colors and I needed it. I need to remain focused at changing these behaviors and being strong and confident and not scared of the D. I need to not be the wimpy scared man that I have been lately and get my balls back.

[gogofo]

Thank you for taking it so well. I hate to see men live in fear of how their W will react, or scared to put any space between them. LBH's seem to have that in common. Their fear causes them to cling tighter, and they hurt themselves, in the end.

In all honesty I am nervous at what the W's reaction will be to my answer to her complaint. But it is what I feel is right about our future as D'd co-parents. We need to be equal in the eyes of the law.

I need to stand up for this belief and face whatever repercussions come my way.

One of the self help books I read said that a man needs to live on the edge of his fear. I have not done this. Sending the response will be the first step towards that.

I need to shift my focus on books and education from M books to how to regain my manliness books. Work on me for me.

[LITB]

Hey Gogofo,

I feel for you man. Do you have any friends you can go hang out with? Any hobbies that you are interested in that you can pick up? Time to start living.

You really need to get busy GAL. It will help you in more ways than you know.