One other question: if one of my W's stereotypical complaints about me was that I wasn't demonstrative enough of my affection for her (e.g. arranging dates and buying her flowers/cards) how can I 180 that behaviour if I'm not supposed to do that stuff for her now?
It is pursuit especially if she is in an active affair.
Like an alcoholic saying I quit vodka and changed to beer. A change but not the right one.
Yep -- BINGO. All of that goes out the window once they are having an affair, and you KNOW they are having an affair, and they KNOW THAT YOU KNOW that they're having an affair. Dynamic totally changes, and to continue to pursue her sexually is only going to further emasculate you in her eyes.
When my W got involved with OM she seriously thought this guy would swoop in, rescue her from her miserable marriage, and whisk her away. She talked about packing up our children and her entire life and moving 800 miles to a place she's never even seen to live happily ever after. Of course there was the minor issue of his wife and children, but true love conquers all, right? This is the woman who refused to move with me to Texas because she would have been too far (less than 200 miles) from her very healthy and independent widowed mother. And her A was 98% emotional, with very limited physical contact.
My W is still going through withdrawal, but even she shakes her head at what she was thinking back then.
My point is that you shouldn't assume that the woman you married is still there. An A is an addiction, like heroin, and someone who is in one is not considering the consequences of their actions. They will blow up their families, their careers, and everything in their lives to keep that high going.
You sound just like I did after BD. I can't believe I posted some of the things I did back then. Not to be harsh, but man up. Show her calm, strength and confidence. Know your boundaries and set them clearly. And do it yesterday.
As Starksy said, no one mistake will end your chances at reconciliation. You are in for a long journey, and you will make missteps along the way. When you do, pick yourself up, brush yourself off, and drive on. You can do this.
Last edited by Rzrback; 02/12/1504:29 PM.
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
It must feel as if we are hitting you pretty hard about your W being in an A. If you read several threads, you will be surprised in the similarity. So many men have started their threads by saying they were sure the W wasn't involved with another man. Then, wham!
We hope to get you to see what's happening so that you will begin making the right steps. It's bad enough to have a WAW, but if she's got some other guy in her head.....you've got a different breed, and one you probably won't recognize as looking anything like the woman you M. And whether she has actually walked away, or not, does not determine if she's a WAW. It is what's in her heart that defines her. And if she fits the bill, plus involved in an A, then she is a wayward wife.
So, there was nothing in your MR that sent up any flags? Everything seem fine, even the sex? Would she initiate ML? Would she kiss you passionately? You know the song, "It's in His Kiss"? Well, it's in her kiss that often tells the truth about her feelings. However, if she really wants to experiment with multiple sex partners, she might be able to pull off having great sex! As it stands now, she wants at least two men.
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I don't see her leaving the M right away to be with the OM permanently because it would involve a move to a different continent. W is also very invested in her career. She'd need to get an equivalent job in a foreign country before she'd leave, IMHO.
Okay, so aside from thinking she would or wouldn't leave the country, the real issue at the moment is she is having an affair. That's what you need to accept. And, never---ever underestimate what a WW might do.
A very important fact you need to learn immediately is that a married woman having an A is not logical. You cannot deal with her logically. She may be the smartest, sharpest, keenest girl out there.....but she will not be reasonable. So make up your mind now....you will not be able to reason with your W. Don't waste your breath trying to talk her into changing her mind, or working with you to save the M, or giving up OM. Every time you try to talk to her about the MR, she will come back at you, placing the fault on your shoulders.
You will learn what not to do or say, it just takes time to get it all in. It is most important that you don't start begging, pleading, & crying. In fact, don't say much at all until you learn a little more about DBing. It is actually a good thing when she wonders what you are thinking or what you may decide to do. Don't give away your feelings. Don't reassure her of your love. If she should ask how you feel since she told you about OM, just tell her you have a lot of think about. Do not tell her any thing else just yet.
Many LBH's panic and feel their time will run out and they must "do something" ASAP. You will be doing something, but probably not what you initially thought.
I think Starsky mentioned how you need to be thinking about your core values. That is extremely important b/c you will need to know about setting boundaries. In order to know where you will draw a line, you have to know what you won't live without.....and what you won't live with. (Excuse the poor grammar, but you get my point?) I'm sure you have certain principles, norms and standards, and most of us have spiritual/religious beliefs. So you have to take all that into account.
Just some examples of what I mean: Will you let another person clearly show disrespect toward you? How do you feel about honesty, faithfulness, loyalty, honor, trust, deceit, lies, betrayal, infidelity, selfishness, on & on. These are the things I meant by what you live with or without in your life. It is based on your character, Kieran, and what you know to be right or wrong.
You have started out doing the right thing b/c you actually came back after the first post. I hope you will continue to communicate with us b/c we would like to help. All of us here have been in like situations, and have learned from each other. You are in good company.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
When my W got involved with OM she seriously thought this guy would swoop in, rescue her from her miserable marriage, and whisk her away. She talked about packing up our children and her entire life and moving 800 miles to a place she's never even seen to live happily ever after. Of course there was the minor issue of his wife and children, but true love conquers all, right? This is the woman who refused to move with me to Texas because she would have been too far (less than 200 miles) from her very healthy and independent widowed mother. And her A was 98% emotional, with very limited physical contact.
My W is still going through withdrawal, but even she shakes her head at what she was thinking back then.
My wife was 47, a caring (almost doting) mother of 4, and a strong Christian woman. Her affair was with a 28 year old "boy" at work, who still lived with his parents, who was studying to become a cop. She would meet up with him in dark parking lots, and have sex in his beat-up truck, while leaving our sons (then 14 and 11) home alone to fend for themselves. Her OM was trying to get her to go on government benefits so she could leave me, since he had nothing financially he could offer her. She was actually considering this.
She was a DEVOTED daughter, who talked to her mother every single day. When her parents disapproved of her affair and her mom confronted her about it, and her father told her how HORRIBLY UPSET her mother was over the whole thing, and was getting sick and not sleeping, she told him "Well, she just needs to get over it."
Oh, and when I re-confronted my wife with my "DECEIT" boundary, and played some voice recordings of her having sex in OM's truck, she listened to the voice on the recording and said (I believe honestly, to her at that moment), "That's not me. Who is that on there?"
It's scary, scary stuff.
They will suddenly listen to completely different genres of music than they ever have before, or suddenly stopping watching TV altogether (or START watching it, when they never had before), use a completely different voice or laugh that you've never heard before, etc.
She's the type that is constantly looking for affirmation. She tells me she loves me multple times throughout the day, looking to hear me say it back. If I'm DBing what do I say to her when she says "I love you"?
I think this need for outside affirmation is what fuels the A. I suspect it started about 3 yrs ago when we were both very busy finishing academic programs and raising a new child. I was too tired and busy to supply all the affection and reassurance she needs, which is a lot, due to her having had a difficult childhood with abusive parents. Now she's hooked on getting her affirmation from the OM.
I'd welcome Sandi's input here, but I would probably say "How can you say you love me when you're having an affair with another man, and going to see him multiple times every year? I think you and I must have a different definition of 'love'."
She's the type that is constantly looking for affirmation. She tells me she loves me multple times throughout the day, looking to hear me say it back.
I don't think it's to fuel her need for affirmation. I think it's to make sure ol' Kieran is still there as her "Plan B" in all of this. To not say it back might cause her to think "Oh sh*t; maybe I went too far here. K doesn't seem to be on board with all of this the way I had hoped."
I hope you will continue to communicate with us b/c we would like to help. All of us here have been in like situations, and have learned from each other. You are in good company.