Thank you for taking the time to answer all of my questions in detail. You have done well with making a lot of changes. Obviously your W still has her walls up to you.
It is possible that the biggest thing you fear, might be the thing that swings the pendulum back to bringing you back together. She still has you in her life, to help her with everything. Just like you did yesterday. It will be different when you aren't around.
You really need to work on your detachment. I can see how she would feel pressure from you. It is overwhelming to her.
Here is an analogy for you....it is like nurturing the growth of a plant. You must provide the correct amount of water and food. Allow the process to run its course. If you provide too much water/food, you will either kill the plant or slow down its growth.
Same thing applies to your M/R. You are so focused on the end result(recon), that you are providing too much water/food. You need to trust the process. It starts with detaching. When you let go, your W will sense it. You will feel like an enormous weight has been lifted off of your shoulders.
Back to my questions about things you have changed. You have made numerous changes within your M/R. I am curious to know if you have made changes independent of your M/R?
25mlc, often post be the person only a fool would leave. To me, that means to be an amazing and attractive person. The goal should be to get there. Here is a list of attractive traits in no particular order:
Me:45 ExW:48 M:04/97 3 Bombs & 2 ReCons 1st BD 11/10 D Finalized 4/20 D-16 S-14 Going in one more round when you don't think you can. That's what makes all the difference in life.~Rocky Balboa
LITB, thank you for your dissection of my situation.
Originally Posted By: LITB
It is possible that the biggest thing you fear, might be the thing that swings the pendulum back to bringing you back together. She still has you in her life, to help her with everything. Just like you did yesterday. It will be different when you aren't around.
This is where I currently have the attitude of still acting "as if" we are not going to D. I am not sure if this is the correct use of this DB principle or not. I go back and forth of acting M or giving up on those actions and acting D and not helping with anything. The reason I haven't gone the acting D route is I feel I would be doing it out of wanting to punish the W or teach her a lesson. I know she would smell this a mile away as the action wouldn't be genuine.
Originally Posted By: LITB
You really need to work on your detachment. I can see how she would feel pressure from you. It is overwhelming to her.
Yes I do and I have been trying to slowly pull away mentally and physically. I am tired of getting hurt and riding the roller coaster.
Originally Posted By: LITB
Here is an analogy for you....it is like nurturing the growth of a plant. You must provide the correct amount of water and food. Allow the process to run its course. If you provide too much water/food, you will either kill the plant or slow down its growth.
Same thing applies to your M/R. You are so focused on the end result(recon), that you are providing too much water/food. You need to trust the process. It starts with detaching. When you let go, your W will sense it. You will feel like an enormous weight has been lifted off of your shoulders.
I have been over watering and standing in her sunlight. I sure she feels like a ducking getting fed for foie gras (ouch). This is the biggest cause of her pain. She probably feels that her efforts are not good enough for me, and she may never be good enough for me. My actions have shown her this.
Originally Posted By: LITB
Back to my questions about things you have changed. You have made numerous changes within your M/R. I am curious to know if you have made changes independent of your M/R?
I have made changes for me. I have restructured my work so it is not a large source of stress and time hog. I now do not let my work success dictate my happiness in my personal life, this was a big step for me. I have been working planning things out and being more proactive instead of reactive in my life. Trying to be more of a leader than a follower. My W would get frustrated waiting for me to make a decision or to do something, while at the same time I was waiting for her.
I still need to work on GAL activities. I did great when we were apart. The physical separation allows me to plan things on days when I know I am going to be alone. When we are together I start to make excuses about GAL. I don't think I have the time because W would have to watch kids and she is busy with her job and doctoral classes, etc. I have the thought that "why is my time more important than her's?" I then stop to GAL as much, or at all, and focus on the M. Then the W feels swamped and overwhelmed and pressured.
Her view or opinion on this dance is that she said "I do so good when we are apart. Then we get back together and I stop doing things for myself. I stop seeing my friends or going out to have fun." I suggested an in-house separation and she told me "it would never work because I cannot leave her alone." She is correct about this.
I guess that is where this is at, she needs lots of time and space. I want to give it to her and us and I know we could be better separated; if it wasn't only for her decision on the D.
I know the D is just paperwork and things do change, but it will still hurt.
Originally Posted By: LITB
25mlc, often post be the person only a fool would leave. To me, that means to be an amazing and attractive person. The goal should be to get there. Here is a list of attractive traits in no particular order:
-Confident Need work on this, I tip-toed around her when trying to reconcile -Humble Good here, I am not cocky at all -Courageous Need work on this -Accountable Decent here, but I do make excuses -Responsible Good here -Honest Need to be more open and communicate it -Trustworthy fairly solid here -Funny(not sarcastic) Very Funny! -Considerate Could improve, was a 180 so I am getting better at it -Communicative Need work on this, I get scared to talk sometimes. W said she wishes we could just argue sometimes. -Happy Was better before
The opposite would be unattractive.
I have had trouble trying to be open and honest with W and keep with the DB principles and also trying not to make her feel pressured. The epiphany (for me) I had about this in early January was to share feelings I had about everything BESIDES the R. That way if the talks went into the R zone we could talk, but I didn't want to force them there.
I have always been a person who get upset if someone is mad at me or dislikes me. I have even tried to apologize to a neighbor that was stealing plants from the first house we were going to buy. I felt I went overboard with my anger. I don't like this about myself and have tried hard to change it. I need to refocus on this.
M:34 XW:34 Together: 10y Living: 9y Married: 7y Son:6 Son:4 Separated: 12/28/13 Piecing: 5/2/14 Separated 2nd: 10/16/14 W filed, but pulled it: 11/5/14 papers served: 1/27/15 D final: 3/6/15
Her view or opinion on this dance is that she said "I do so good when we are apart. Then we get back together and I stop doing things for myself. I stop seeing my friends or going out to have fun." I suggested an in-house separation and she told me "it would never work because I cannot leave her alone." She is correct about this.
There it is. You have to be able to do well, apart and together. Space can be your friend, as long as you utilize your time wisely. Be consistent in your actions.
You know what you need to do. Nothing to it, but to do it.
Originally Posted By: gogofo
I have always been a person who get upset if someone is mad at me or dislikes me. I have even tried to apologize to a neighbor that was stealing plants from the first house we were going to buy. I felt I went overboard with my anger. I don't like this about myself and have tried hard to change it. I need to refocus on this.
This is interesting. That is the beauty of detachment. It applies to every aspect of your life. Some people will like you, and some people will dislike you. It is reality. Don't be a people pleaser, because you will be unhappy.
Treat people respect and integrity. If they like you, great. If they don't, it really doesn't matter. Some people are simply miserable.
Many times we place expectations on people by the way we would do things. When they don't meet these expectations, we come away disappointed. Just a matter of accepting that we are all different, and do things differently(similar to the 5LL).
That's right pal....developing detachment. Detachment
Me:45 ExW:48 M:04/97 3 Bombs & 2 ReCons 1st BD 11/10 D Finalized 4/20 D-16 S-14 Going in one more round when you don't think you can. That's what makes all the difference in life.~Rocky Balboa
I went and talked to a L today about the D complaint I received. I have a response to the complaint ready to go, but I want to talk to my W about it before it is sent. The only part of the complaint I am contesting is that she have primary custody. When we had talked before she said that we would be basically sharing custody, but that is not how it is spelled out in the complaint.
I am going to respond to it and agree to everything except the child custody.
I want to tell her before I get the L to act on it so she knows what I am thinking and what is going on.
I am working on the wording for how to bring this up tonight and here is what I think.
"W, we need to talk about the D complaint you filed. If you feel that the D is what you want then I am going to have to file a response to the complaint so I do not default.
The area I have issue with is the wording of the custody of the children. We had discussed a split custody arrangement but the language used does not reflect this. I do intend both of us to equally co-parent the children and want the agreement to reflect this. I want us equal in the eyes of the court.
I do not feel that the D is the answer to our problems, but if this is what you want I will not stand in your way. I this is truly what you want, then I want us both to be equally represented."
Then I would proceed to tell her that my L will work on the uncontested papers with us together if her L withdraws the complaint.
Let me know how my script is.
M:34 XW:34 Together: 10y Living: 9y Married: 7y Son:6 Son:4 Separated: 12/28/13 Piecing: 5/2/14 Separated 2nd: 10/16/14 W filed, but pulled it: 11/5/14 papers served: 1/27/15 D final: 3/6/15
Isn't a D complaint the same as filing for a D, right?
If yes, then I do not see the need to talk with W as she's already instructed her L to act on her behalf and her L put it in the complaint.
Remove yourself from the process and allow your L to compile a response and contest it from a custodial standpoint.
Do not engage your W directly in those discussions. There's a reason for the lawyers...to hash out the details. It is now the time to put on your business hat for this is a negotiation between the two of you via Ls.
I understand your reasoning here Wonka, let me explain with more detail.
If I do not contest the D complaint, then it is accepted and we go our merry ways. This is financially beneficial to me. If I contest it and we decide to both L up and go to court, then I could stand to lose a large portion of my retirement and other investments and inherit a portion of her student debt. Could cost me around $70k or more.
She has stated she does not want my investments and does not want to give me her debt. I agree.
This I do not want. To me it seems like a boneheaded idea.
With an uncontested D complaint we both set the parameters of our D and the courts have no reason to change anything.
It is my opinion that if I tell her up front then we can still be amicable about this and she will not be caught off guard by my response from the L.
She told me in advance that I would be served papers. I feel that this is the best way to handle this right now.
Originally Posted By: Wonka
Do not engage your W directly in those discussions.
Why should I not engage W directly?
M:34 XW:34 Together: 10y Living: 9y Married: 7y Son:6 Son:4 Separated: 12/28/13 Piecing: 5/2/14 Separated 2nd: 10/16/14 W filed, but pulled it: 11/5/14 papers served: 1/27/15 D final: 3/6/15
If I do not contest the D complaint, then it is accepted and we go our merry ways. This is financially beneficial to me. If I contest it and we decide to both L up and go to court, then I could stand to lose a large portion of my retirement and other investments and inherit a portion of her student debt. Could cost me around $70k or more.
Wait a cotton-pickin' minute...I thought you said previously that all was fine and dandy with the exception of "primary custody". What I thought was that all the financials and division of assets were already agreed upon by you two (you had no reaction) with the exception of "primary custody" which is something that you don't agree with at all...is that right?
All is fine with the current agreement, except custody.
If she agrees to redo an uncontested D, then all will be fine and we can both have joint custody and keep our financials separate.
If we cannot meet an uncontested D then we go to court. This is where we argue our sides and the threat to my financials happens because the judge will set what they think is equitable. (she gets some of my investments and I get some of her debt)
I am trying to keep us communicating and working together and keep this away from the judge making decisions in our lives.
We can switch L or go through hers, I don't care, I just want to protect my right to my kids and my financials.
M:34 XW:34 Together: 10y Living: 9y Married: 7y Son:6 Son:4 Separated: 12/28/13 Piecing: 5/2/14 Separated 2nd: 10/16/14 W filed, but pulled it: 11/5/14 papers served: 1/27/15 D final: 3/6/15
I found it hard to answer when the L asked me what the grounds for D were. The judge it would be sent to would not accept a generic "irreconcilable differences", it needed to be more specific.
I told the L that I didn't want this, she was pushing for it. She said that she is done working on the marriage, so there is the reason, it just seemed petty.
M:34 XW:34 Together: 10y Living: 9y Married: 7y Son:6 Son:4 Separated: 12/28/13 Piecing: 5/2/14 Separated 2nd: 10/16/14 W filed, but pulled it: 11/5/14 papers served: 1/27/15 D final: 3/6/15
One step at a time, buddy. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
All is fine with the current agreement, except custody.
Ask your L if the custody issue remains unsolved, would the other sections be unaffected if it were to go to the judge? Meaning that you and W have ALREADY agreed to the financials and assets so that should not be a problem for the judge. The only area of contention is "primary custody" which is what the judge will be focusing on.
If she agrees to redo an uncontested D, then all will be fine and we can both have joint custody and keep our financials separate.
If we cannot meet an uncontested D then we go to court. This is where we argue our sides and the threat to my financials happens because the judge will set what they think is equitable. (she gets some of my investments and I get some of her debt)
See above. I think if you and W already agreed and hashed out the financials, then the judge wouldn't mess with it. Don't the lawyers state in the briefs the areas of "disagreement" and areas of "agreement" so the judge knows where the parties stand? I'd ask your L those questions now before having any further talks with W. You need more information from L on this.
I am trying to keep us communicating and working together and keep this away from the judge making decisions in our lives.
We can switch L or go through hers, I don't care, I just want to protect my right to my kids and my financials.
I wouldn't even go there for it shows desperation on your part. Stick with your L for he has your BEST interests at heart and will fight for them.
