Continuing DBing...

[Complex]

Agreed. That will put immense pressure on her. Not only for the decision if she wants to R, but also during the process if she will.
Wish you the best of luck Peter...either way I hope you'll feel better.
Love is all about decisions sometimes. And you made yours, now she has to make hers, fair enough.
You'll be fine either way!
Problem with ultimatums is the following through. W might not even 100% realize how serious you are, and I hope you really are. She might say yes and then ditch out, or she might say no and then regret wanting to come back one day.
I hope you prepare yourself for different outcomes.

[PeterV2]

I don't view it as an ultimatum.

An ultimatum is a demand whose fulfillment is requested in a specified period of time and which is backed up by a threat to be followed through in case of noncompliance.

There's no threat to be followed through in case of noncompliance. In fact there's not even an issue of compliance or noncompliance.

I'm just saying I can't take the limbo anymore so let me know if you're willing to reconcile. Just make a decision one way or the other because I cannot continue in this state of limbo. I fear the continued stress of living in this state of limbo will compromise my health. Cortisol is a neurotoxin and has many negative effects on one's health. If I get sick and unable to work then that does neither of us any good. So in order to prevent my breakdown I need to move out of this state of limbo.

True the initial result of moving out of this limbo will be even more stress, but hopefully that will be short-lived and with a light at the end of the tunnel, whichever tunnel I end up in, I will be able to relax, knowing which path I'm on, and working toward that goal, whether it be a happy marriage, or a happy divorce.

[PeterV2]

Toots & Starsky, I agree. I'll drop the vow renewal bit and stick to the point.

[PeterV2]

W might not even 100% realize how serious you are, and I hope you really are. She might say yes and then ditch out, or she might say no and then regret wanting to come back one day.
I hope you prepare yourself for different outcomes.

I'm 100% serious. I should maybe tell her that specifically, just so she realizes it.

If she says yes then great. If later she ditches out then it's over, period.

If she says no, then I move on. If she has regrets later then that's her problem. If later she wants to come back then, depending on how my world looks at that time, I may or may not consider it. She would need to meet my standards so depending on where she would be at, it may be a lot of work for her for me even to consider it after everything that has come to pass.

[Wonka]

Peter,

I would suggest that you lovingly present your needs to W and say that it is no longer working. It is up to her to step up the plate and figure a way to satisfy both of your needs in the M.

Fingers crossed that your talk goes well with W.

[PeterV2]

Wonka, what do you me by "my needs"? That I need to get out of this limbo? That I need to live at home? That I need to have her reconcile with me? The I need transparency and honesty? That I need sex and intimacy? That I need for her to have NC with OM?

How far do I go?

[Sotto]

Yes, I was wondering about going for a slightly different angle - where you say to her - "how things have been with us recently - examples....this isn't working for me. I need X and Y. I really need you to think about whether you can do this, because I can't do it in this way any more. And I'm moving on unless this changes.."

Is it more powerful to say it this way?

[PeterV2]

I'm sleeping in my own bed tonight for the first time in over 2 months. It feels good. She's still away. May be back tomorrow. There will be much gnashing of teeth that I'm back in the house, as she had said a couple months ago that she needs time by herself.

Well she's had two months by herself, and I can't take it anymore, sleeping away from home every night. I still need to sleep at the RH Fridays and Saturdays, but I can handle that. At least I have some sense of home. And I am a homebody. It's one of my needs.

I'm not sure telling her I need X & Y or I'm moving on is right. That sounds like an ultimatum as it entails compliance to demands (meet my needs) and a threat (I'll leave). I disagree to the ultimatum tactic.

By me just saying I can no longer live in limbo. Let me know if you're willing to reconcile. It's more about me taking control of my life, not controlling hers. It doesn't matter which way she decides to answer: willing or unwilling. The only demand is that I need an answer one way or another. She must realize that which way she answers determine my path.

[Wonka]

Peter,

I get that you're in emotional pain after starving of intimacy from your own W.

Before you talk with W, I suggest that you read the Nonviolent Communication book by Marshall Rosenberg and The Soulmate Experience: A Practical Guide to Creating Extraordinary Relationships by Mali Apple and Joe Dunn.

These two books forced me to reflect on my values, my needs, and my worldview on what a healthy relationship looks like to me. It has opened up some avenues for me and changed my perspectives in some ways.

Mind you, I am not 100% in agreement with EVERYTHING that the Soulmate Experience authors say. However, there were some useful nuggets.

There's another book that I'm currently reading at the moment that has helped me reframe many things from my past, my present and my future path:

Intellectual Foreplay: Questions for Lovers and Lovers-To-Be by Eve Eschner Hogan with Steven Hogan

[PeterV2]

Wonka, Ok I ordered Nonviolent Communication and Intellectual Foreplay. But they won't arrive for a week. I could put the whole thing off for a couple of weeks, but will I learn anything from those books that will get me out of limbo, or will it only help me to communicate better my need to get out of limbo?