I'm ashamed to admit this, but I'm still terrified of losing her.
I'm glad you got that off your chest. It didn't surprise me at all to read it. I could smell your fear from however-many miles away last night in your posts. And if I can sniff it out, you better believe W can, too.

It doesn't make you less of a man to be afraid of losing your W.

I think there's a balance in there, though, Rzr: Okay, keep your testosterone and anger in check; cool it on hammering away at OM in front of W. (He's not the one you married, after all, and he's not the one who broke a vow made with you.) But I'd certainly strongly encourage you to make sure that your fear of losing your W doesn't lead you to have to - as one vet says - go pull your balls out of her purse.

All I'm about to write may be flying in the face of everything else you've been told about the best way to handle things in your case; I am not as deep in your sitch as others. But something has been gnawing at me about your W since last night, and your latest response just added to it.

Yesterday, this (from you) really stuck out to me:

She let loose on both me and OM. I listened calmly for about 10 minutes and then it just exploded in me ... We're talking now and her state of mind is far better today.
There's *something* about your W that feels/seems really familiar to me. I don't know if it's that I, myself, can identify with her or if it's that she reminds me of someone I know. Maybe it's a little of both. Okay, okay, if I'm being *really* honest: Her dramatics actually remind me A LOT of my earlier self ... and (I'm so glad I'm anonymous right now) ... my SISTER!

My sister just turned 40. She is as sharp as a tack and as smart as they come. She's beautiful, competitive, driven and highly successful. She makes six figures. She's working on her Ph.D. But she has been D twice. And she's working on H #3. She talks a big game about how physically AND emotionally independent she is ... and she has A LOT of people convinced.

I am not one of them.

She's ACTUALLY very needy. Clingy. Very reliant on external approval. But you would NEVER know it. In her Ms, she wore the pants, and her H's voices quivered when they stood up to her (*IF* they stood up to her). She's freakin' MOUTHY as all get out. Her eyes will burn holes through you when she's angry. She acts like - and is the first to tell you that - she knows what she wants, when she wants it and HOW she wants it. And that's how she runs the show with men who love her. If SHE wants to talk about x, you're gonna sit down and LISTEN to her talk about x! And don't DARE interrupt her with your nonsense bullsh!t.

But, Rzr, when a man falls for her and jumps in line like a good, little duck - JUST LIKE THAT - she's DONE with him.

I'm the only person who calls a spade a spade to my sister, and I'm the only person in the world that she'll be vulnerable in front of. I told her during one of her "I-told-HIM" tirades not too long ago: "What you NEED is a man - a MAN - who stands up to you and your crap and your big mouth. A man who will every once in a while tell you, lovingly and respectfully, to sit down and shut the he!l up!"

Her eyes got as big around as saucers. And then she smiled real big and said, "Yes. You're exactly right."

What does this have to do with you, Rzr?

Maybe nothing.

But, like I said, there's just something familiar about your W to me. Could it be that she is the kind of woman my sister is? When I read about your W's reactions and responses ... and when I read that you lost your cool and lashed out and then the next morning your W's "state of mind" was strangely "much better," I dunno. I just wonder if that's a clue that your W is attracted to a, you know, MAN. A fearless, convicted MAN.

Now I'm not telling you to go and tell your W to sit down and shut up. That's something I can tell my sister she needs, but that's because she's my sister. Lol. The point is, though, I, too, am a confident, capable, mouthy (at times - lol) woman. And one of my biggest complaints to my H, once he came back home, is that he always let me run the show and call all the shots. He thought - because that's always who I was - that that's what I wanted. It wasn't. It isn't. I'm a woman. And yeah, a strong one. But I'm a woman. And I want a MAN as a husband. One that's not afraid to respectfully, but firmly, put me in my place every once in a while if I'm in the "wrong place."

It might p!ss me off at first, you know? But that kind of decisiveness - that kind of leadership - is freaking HOT in a man. And I could be wrong, but I don't think I'm the only girl out here who feels that way.

Maybe I've rambled about something that doesn't at all apply to your W or your situation. But I just feel like your W may be one of "those" women. And IF she is, then pu$sy-footing around her because you fear losing her is going to be your very worst enemy. It's going to backfire on you.

I don't feel qualified enough to tell you what to do; I'm not familiar enough with your sitch. But I know you've stated you're scared of losing your W. And I know she disrespects you enough to talk about OM to your face. And perhaps there's a piece of the puzzle I didn't catch - or something that maybe you didn't write about to connect a couple dots - but I drew an interesting parallel between you losing your cool and your W's better "state of mind" the very next morning. And I thought I'd throw allllll this out there as food for thought for you.

I really hesitate to say this, because I don't want someone bashing me for saying that we shouldn't listen to what our spouse *says* they want. But I really wonder if your W is like my sister: she *says* she wants you to be one way but her *actions* show she NEEDS you to be something else.


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014