Old dog seeks new trick 8

[Old Dog]

Does getting a decent night's sleep count. I could do with one.

[Ggrass]

Trying to improve sleeping patterns should be top of your list, but not in place of gal.

I know what it's like to be tired and feel run down. That cold that half came and hing round over winter seems to have hit my nose.

Sinus hurts. Dry scratchy back of throat hurt. Sniffy and tired.

[Vanilla]

Paging Vanilla! See discussion above.

Old Dog, Vanilla has done an excellent job laying down her boundaries and sticking to them. They are basically your rules - things you will and won't tolerate - and actions you will take in the event they are breached (mostly to protect yourself). So one could be (for example) W cannot spend joint monies to fund activities with OM. I'm sure others will chime in soon enough.

Financials - totally get where you are coming from but think it is likely to go south again if you say it like that. Let's see if others can help with how to phrase it. (I had the opposite situation - H wanted to spilt funds immediately, which felt like a devastating blow at the time by now I am thankful).

Gan, my apologies I drafted a reply but the internet ate it! Unusually for V it was done on my iPad and thus directly into the thread.

So I start again, I can only give you my take on it and my struggles. Boundaries are basically about self love, about knowing what is acceptable behaviour to you as a person. This is behaviour from others towards you and that is matched by your own behaviour towards others. It is almost impossible to have a good relationship with someone who has no idea of what behaviours are acceptable to them and is inconsistent. I think of my boundaries a little like a target board with concentric rings. my boundary tolerance is different with different people. My M has dementia so my tolerance and boundaries are more reasonable with my M. Whilst some boundaries are universal others are personal. Boundaries should be reasonable and not confused with rights or entitlement. They are personal preferences.

Boundaries need to be reasonable and easily demonstrated, they must also be capable of being enforced.

When I first started it was very hard as my previous Rs had been with partners who self enforced their behaviour and treated others as they would like to be treated. Sadly that is not the case with H who behaves and does whatever he feels like. V just fell to pieces in big noodle and doormat style. So with the help of an IC and some practice sessions V set some reasonable boundaries and enforced them. Sounds theoretical and to start with very stilted and unnatural. In fact early on V was nauseous and physically sick with fear at enforcing boundaries. I felt I had done damage to my R by doing it and that it was irreversible. This is counter intuitive I know this but I still felt uncomfortable. A big 180 for V.

My first big test was H swearing at me particularly in phone calls. I was going into screaming banshee mode which back footed me and then H would go smugly 'you see V?' So the boundary is I will not be abused on the phone.

H swears at V on the mobile.
I feel abused when I am sworn at on the phone and I want this stopped, if you swear at me over the phone I will cease the call.
So next time H swore at me I ceased the call. H rang back. So.....
H, I advised you that I will not be sworn at over the phone and when you do this I will cease the call, so I ceased the call. Can you tell me what you were calling about please?

The next time H swore at me, I ceased the call.
H, can I remind you that I will not tolerate being sworn at over the phone? If this happens again not only will I cease the call but I will turn off my phone for half an hour. What can I do for you?

It has not happened since.

A harder one, where at the end I shook like a jelly? H drinks and my boundary is that I will not sleep with nor have sex with a drunk.

H, I am unhappy sharing a bed with you when you are drunk or have been drinking heavily and if it continues every night then I will move to another room. It did and I now sleep in another room. Boundaries have to be enforced.

Another one?
I will no longer pay all the bills whilst H, drinks, smokes, gambles, eats out, treats OWs and runs expensive cars. H did not work at this stage and had exhausted his own cash reserves. H has debts and a very small pension.

I feel that I pay the bills for our joint living and this is unreasonable. I want you to pay a reasonable portion into our joint account to pay towards this. I feel this should start next month. If this is not your choice then I must start to ask you to pay some bills directly and give me cheques for your half of...... In addition you will pay for and provide food for yourself etc as if we were flat mates. Can you think about what you want to do and we can talk next Tuesday ok?

H now pays to the joint account, an amount which is acceptable. He funds this by working in the business for a number of hours and he sends an invoice. no work no pay.

My IC helped a lot with the practice on this. She also pointed me to useful talk used in training of therapists on boundaries and codependency. It is not sexy like a Ted talk but I listened to it many times. Just to be clear V is not codependent so might find this easier.

http://youtu.be/Ytq51GMsd8w

I hope this helps. I was told to start with an I statement about my feelings. No one can dispute feelings nor ones right to them. Then to state the behaviour and the change needed without blame, in a neutral voice and finally the consequence. V does as she is advised. I am sure there are more sophisticated ways of doing this. But I stick to the knitting pattern and it works.
V

[gan]

Wow. V, thanks so much!

Old Dog, like I said, V da boundary queen! Hope this gives you some ideas.

[LisaB]

Great post from Vanilla!

Thanks Old Dog for taking the time to respond in detail to my post to you. You seem like such a good man!! Kind, thoughtful and caring.

Indeed you are caught in a bit of a bind. Your sons want and need you around. You are unsure whether your absence working away has caused or contributed to your problem, so you don't know if now you should be around more or less.

I get it.

I really respect that you can put up with the situation for your kids. But I ask you, are you SURE you are doing it for the kids or just because you want to have the crumbs of your marriage? Do you have to be in the house with her to be around the kids? Maybe getting a separate place nearby is possible?

I don't mean to push you but I think the way things are going is the way things will keep going unless you make a big change. I don't know what that is. Maybe it isn't moving out, maybe it is just a conversation you need to have with her - setting boundaries.

What about ... shock ... you get the house on the weekends and she has to go stay elsewhere? Why should you or the kids suffer if she no longer wants the marriage?

I feel like she is taking advantage of you big time and does not respect you. So I say do something about it.

I know it is so difficult. I've been through a similar thing. When BD first happened for me my H was still happily living in the house and partying with OW and coming home late. Still sleeping in the same bed. I questioned whether to kick him out for my sanity and self-respect or to let him stay around and hope I could win him back with my DB techniques. Looking back I am not 100% sure I made the right decision. Maybe I could have shocked him another way, by leaving on vacation or something. But I am pretty sure he was determined to go off with OW no matter what. Anyway, the short story is that I asked him to move out and he did the next day. Did it help my situation? I don't know. But at least then I didn't have to look at his stupid face every day and lie awake all night waiting for him to come home from his dates. I could have some self respect and start living my OWN life.

I don't know if my rant will help you, but really think about what you want.

Hugs, Lisa

[Old Dog]

V, I will read (again) and digest.

Thank you for you wise words of wisdom.

Lisa, how do you know me so well? I have considered the weekend thing. And who knows, I think the day is coming nearer.

Still not getting enough sleep though, and I'm still recovering from my shocking cold so I have put off doing much about anything just yet. I did play football this evening with some colleagues thoug which was nice.

[Sotto]

Hi OD - good to hear from you...have been thinking about you. Sounds like you're doing pretty well, all considered. Quietly mulling things over, recovering from your cold a bit of GAL and gathering yourself.

You know where we are if you need us. Did you get any further with the Ceroc? I'm thinking of doing a beginners workshop in March.

Hope you're all better soon OD ((OD))

[Old Dog]

Hey Toots,

No Ceroc nearby sad to say. Been taking it a bit easy this week but did play football last night. I have agreed to run a half marathon with my flatmate in a month and a half!!!

On the way 'home' now. I just rejected a lift from the station by WAW. She's never asked if I wanted a lift before, always just 'are you on time'? I said I wanted to go to the shop. Which is partly true do I can look at running shoes.

And I want to continue reading 'The Passion Trap' which I can do on the bus.

[Old Dog]

Just woke up and checked Facebook. A nice encouraging message from a friend, a few responds to posts I've made and the I hit the wrong button by mistake and it suggested I be friends with OM and WAW.

I actually found it mildly amusing.

[Sotto]

Good for you with the running OD! That sounds like an ambitious plan - but nice to have a focus for the next period of time. Are you a runner already? I saw a greyhound running in a big field the other day. Wow, they are great to watch.....maybe this will be you in a few weeks OD??

Interesting that your W offered you a lift. Maybe she's feeling a little guilty about what's been happening recently? Sounds good that you were independent anyway....and as you say, you probably couldn't have sat reading 'The Passion Trap' in the car!

Good for you with the football playing, do you have any other GAL plans in progress? You've been a little quiet about your plans....maybe mulling things over. Have you decided on a way forward for you yet, or are you still pondering?