This can't be the end! #2

[LisaB]

Excellent: you got a final answer. You're lucky you got such clarity so early because most of us get a "We'll get back together if you are consistent with your changes." or "I want to be separated for 8.5 months, pretend it's over and then we'll get back together." and then we go on for months not knowing if they told us the truth, if they could really predict the future. But in your case, she knows the future, she never changes her mind, so let's move on.

Mozza, this really made me laugh! Love it! I guess we share the sarcastic sense of humor.

Barry you are so LUCKY! You have amazing vets on here giving you good feedback and advice. I see a pattern in what they are all telling you. Do you?

And yes I too think you need to examine your attitude and responses on this forum. People are giving you amazing advice and feedback. And you come back with pitiful replies sometimes like "sorry to vent". We are all venting on here and whining and complaining. That's fine. What people are trying to say to help you is what are you going to do to get Barry back on track? They are trying to help you see ways you might be thinking in the wrong way or doing things in the wrong way that aren't going to help your situation.

Read back in the threads. Some of these people who are giving you tough love were the recipients of it themselves. And many are in a better place today whether reunited with their spouse or just happier and healthier. People are trying to help you. You are so lucky to have so many great people following your situation. Take advantage of this and ask their advice, take their advice! I wish I had so many vets helping me with my sitch.

Good luck Barry!

[Barry]

Hi Lisa, Thanks for stopping by my thread.

I'm aware that the advice I'm getting I'd sound, and I'm appreciative of any feedback and time given by anyone. I'm not going to lie, Mozza's post above did aggravate me at the time, even though the message being conveyed was accurate. Mozza has it spot on that we don't know the future and I was being very negative in my post it related to. As I did also post later about my "venting my sadness" comment, it was more me trying to say "sorry if I'm depressing people". This has been said to me before.
I just found that the sarcasm in the above post almost nullified the sound advice given if I'm being honest. If I wanted to sift through sarcasm to get to the real message, I'd talk with my W!!

I may well be be chastised for this but it sometimes seems to be ok to vent on the forum so long as the sad or "pitiful" comments are kept to a minimum and anger or resentment are the underlying tones. I appreciate that anyone commenting on such posts are only trying to help give an emotional 2x4 to the poster, it's sometimes the way it's done that I feel is a little harsh. As I've said before, the INtent is great, the CONtent could be worded better though. The same can be said for my own communication though so I should practice what I preach!!

As for Mozza in particular, I bear no grudges or ill will to him and I really do hope he continues to follow my sitch and post his helpful feedback. I've actually read all of his threads in the last couple of days. I did note that in Mozza 4, he also had some feedback regarding one of his posts that got what I felt was an unnecessary amount of negative comments back. By the end of the string, Mozza too had said he didn't want to talk about it any more. It seemed that people had picked up on a negative part of his post and wanted to keep bashing him about it no matter what reasoning he then tried to give for it. I have read many other peoples threads here in an attempt to understand my own. Some of them help, some don't. I take the good stuff and leave the rest.

I know I have some great people following me and giving good advice (although there hasn't been much in the last few days, which is fine of course, it gives me time to read DB anyway!). I am finding some very relatable material in the book which is helping, and I am looking at my attitude and how I communicate my thoughts and feelings.

Again, thank you.

Barry

[Mozza]

Hello Barry,

Thanks for the update on your sitch. I'll reiterate that I'm not a vet, I haven't succeeded at R ever, and just got here in October. Anything I say is to help you think, at best.

Mozza, if I could just answer one of your questions above "What are the steps I see on the path to R". No, I don't expect there to be an easy fix to this. We've been through a sitch like this before (to a lesser extent admittedly) and although the underlying issues were obviously not addressed correctly, I do know it's hard work. I would say that over the next "X" months, we would need to get to know each other again, as the people we've become. That's of course after we both figure out who we are for ourselves!! I'm sure there'll be lots of small steps to take before any talk of R, or "dating" can take place, and there'll have to be some very honest talk of each other's boundries. Maybe we won't/can't accept each other's, maybe we can...I don't know at this stage.

There's something missing in your story, something big. I'm tempted to let you think about it, but I'll say it: it's everything that happens before what you describe. You describe when the curve goes back up, but you're missing the "it gets worse before it gets better" part. I was trying, with my question, to make you realize that your sitch will go through some very difficult times, especially for you. Look around these boards and look at the success stories. Once you realize that, you might be calmer about what you're about to experience, knowing it's a normal phase of a longer process.

She didnt ask about what I'd been up to.

From my observations around here and in my sitch, it's mostly because WAS are completely self-absorbed and have little regard for others.

As I did also post later about my "venting my sadness" comment, it was more me trying to say "sorry if I'm depressing people". This has been said to me before.

To clarify: we're all full of empathy and if we feel sad, it can be because of a turn of events but never because you're sharing your sadness. Will all do, in large quantities. In fact, it's recommended to do it here rather than elsewhere.

I just found that the sarcasm in the above post almost nullified the sound advice given if I'm being honest. If I wanted to sift through sarcasm to get to the real message, I'd talk with my W!!

I'm sorry Barry, I didn't mean to aggravate you. I've had a bad week apparently because I've offended another poster and had to apologize over there. I need to keep my own attitude in check.

I think I had the reaction because it pushes some of my buttons about communication. It left me with the impression that you were making a "covert contract" with the board: "if I tell you all is lost because of a text, you'll tell me I'm exaggerating". It was my reading of it, but not necessarily your intention. But again, I really think reading "Nor More Mr. Nice Guy" will give you some good insights. I hope you can get to it real soon.

As for Mozza in particular, I bear no grudges or ill will to him and I really do hope he continues to follow my sitch and post his helpful feedback. I've actually read all of his threads in the last couple of days.

I'm honored that you read all of my sitch and seem to know the details of some parts. I'll agree that it's a rich thread, with the advice of many vets and newcomers of quality. I've benefited tremendously from it and would be in a very different place today without it.

I did note that in Mozza 4, he also had some feedback regarding one of his posts that got what I felt was an unnecessary amount of negative comments back. By the end of the string, Mozza too had said he didn't want to talk about it any more. It seemed that people had picked up on a negative part of his post and wanted to keep bashing him about it no matter what reasoning he then tried to give for it.

Yes, this is something I've learnt about myself since BD and that I've taken out of this particular exchange: I don't need to convince everyone, to beat every detail to death. I need to let go. I wish I had done this more often in my M.

I have read many other peoples threads here in an attempt to understand my own. Some of them help, some don't. I take the good stuff and leave the rest.

It's a healthy attitude. We're all ultimately responsible for our sitches. We don't owe each other to obey the advice or agree with the analysis. I don't take any offense when people reject my advice. In fact, I'd be more worried by someone who does everything that I suggest because I don't want this level of responsibility.

[Barry]

Hi Mozza, Thanks for your response.

There's something missing in your story, something big. It's everything that happens before what you describe. You describe when the curve goes back up, but you're missing the "it gets worse before it gets better" part.

Agreed. I did miss this out but I am aware from reading many people's sitch's here that I'm in for a very rough ride before this gets any better (if it ever does) in terms of R. As an example, most people's signatures have some mention of an OP, be it either before BD or after. I'll be honest that right now, my W is not showing signs of wanting to R so chances are that an OM may appear at some point. This will still crush me at the moment as I'm not doing so good at detaching. I do know that from some of the success stories that it can be a necessary path for the WAS to tread. It may or may not last, and it's at worst, the end of our M with no hope, or at best a chance for her to see that the grass isn't greener, and realise what she's lost. I'm still unsure if this is a deal breaker for me, as I don't know how long I could see her with an OM and still want to R, that's a bridge i'll have to cross I suppose.
I am aware of it but do try not to dwell on it too much, it doesn't help my mental state.

She didnt ask about what I'd been up to.

From my observations around here and in my sitch, it's mostly because WAS are completely self-absorbed and have little regard for others.

Absolutly. This is the biggest change I've seen in my W. She has always been a kind and considerate wife/mother/person but she is currently only thinking of herself with no regard to the long term affects of all this on me, our children, and her too. After reading some other threads on here (as well as some research last year), I do think she is in a MLC but me pointing that out to her won't help the sitch at all. I was hoping that her friends and family may suggest it to her (maybe they have?). She's either unaware, or choosing to ignore the repurcussions of a short term problem or the long term future. Obviously a MLC is not the only reason for this happening, my own actions and attitude have also played a major part in things. I'm sure I read it on one of your early threads that "She is delivering a death sentance, when some community service would do". That's how this feels to me right now though.

I'm sorry Barry, I didn't mean to aggravate you.

I think I had the reaction because it pushes some of my buttons about communication. It left me with the impression that you were making a "covert contract" with the board: "if I tell you all is lost because of a text, you'll tell me I'm exaggerating". It was my reading of it, but not necessarily your intention.

Please don't apologise Mozza, no harm done.

As I read how you took my post, I suppose there may have been an element of the "covert contract" underlying my post. It wasn't a concious thing and I didn't see it at the time of writing but I think I probably DID want someone to tell me it was an exaggeration on her part to give me some feeling of hope where there appeared to be none.
I haven't got NMMNG yet but I will do as I do need to try and communicate in a more effective manner, both on this forum and certainly with my W. As I say, I don't conciously communicate badly, but more thought is needed I can see.

I don't need to convince everyone, to beat every detail to death. I need to let go. I wish I had done this more often in my M.

Can I get an Amen brother!! I need to do this NOW, and I also wish I would have done this more in my M.

I have read many other peoples threads here in an attempt to understand my own. Some of them help, some don't. I take the good stuff and leave the rest.

It's a healthy attitude. We're all ultimately responsible for our sitches.

I will continue with this attitude. No two sitch's are exactly the same (although there are some common similarities for sure). I do try to read as many as I can, and read them well to see if there are things in other people's that ARE relevant to my sitch, but which I have been blind to before. I try to make notes as I go of things to think about in more detail later...it's a long list!
Regarding any advice offered, I have to remember that people are seeing only my side of the story (I'm sure I play down my faults at times) and ultimatly, the advice is offered freely by people who have been through (in cases) far worse than I and lived to tell the tale. I need to listen more and not get defensive about things which touch a nerve. Most of the advice is key to my survival as a person and a good deal of it is at the very least making me think about how to deal with my W in the future, whether or not we R.

GAL activities this weekend..

Meet D15 and her new boyfriend for coffee.
Shop for some new clothes.
Meet up with a friend for a meal.
Spin Cycling class.
Finish reading DB!

Barry.

[Sotto]

Hi Barry - sounds like you're doing pretty well in the circumstances. You seem more aware of the DB principles now, and to be evaluating things in a more measured way.....good for you. These things are important skills for getting through - surviving - and thriving beyond our sitches. And of course, our sitches don't determine our lives going forwards, we do that for ourselves.

As you say, it's still very early days, and you can expect some twists and turns in your sitch. But having a good attitude in place to weather these, grow and learn is a great starting point.

Best of luck to you matey! :-)

[rd500]

Hi Barry. So sorry you here. Just a quick post to let you know that many of us feel exactly as you do re the sadness. My W left 4 months ago and I still ache with the loss. I have DBed as per the books but also using the advice of my life coach I have been the best me I can be. My W left myself and four kids, put herself on the poverty line and is talking suicide at the moment She has an OM who has plenty of problems of his own and she tells me almost daily how crap her life is This woman was my best friend for /25 years and I trusted her with my life
I long for her to come home and join the family but that's not on the cards at the moment

Sorry got off the point. You pain and sadness are very real and you have your beliefs re your W and the chances for your R. What the vets and others are trying to do is give you the tools to help you deal and take the shovel off you so you don't dig the hole any deeper.

I love it when one of my DB friends gives me some hope but there is a reality to all our sitchs In your case your W is not who she was and doesn't want an R with you. None of us have any idea what's going on in their minds , maybe your W is gone forever maybe not but are you not better dealing with the sitch day by day.

I feel your pain , I really do , I was so sad last night it was painful but today is a bit better I will be happy again one day and so will you.

Post often and the vets will offer some really helpful advice ( like toots I don't get their attention but I presume they have nothing to offer) and people like me can offer support

Stay strong and look at the positives in your life. Take care Rd

[LisaB]

Hey Barry, thanks for replying to my post!

What I meant about the sadness angle is not that you shouldn't be sad or that you shouldn't vent about sadness but that it seemed you were not hearing the advice you were given and were instead hiding behind "I'm sorry I'm so sad" kind of like an excuse. Of course we are all here for similar reasons so we get it! I'm sad too sometimes and it blows. I get it.

In a way I think the feedback is not really so much about what you are saying on here but more about how what you say on here reflects on difficulties you might have with your marriage or with DBing. In other words, think about how you react and interact on these boards and how that might also apply to your situation.

We are here for you to vent and we empathize! I've read many many posts of people saying they have been crying and depressed and they get propped up and supported. So I do not agree that angry posts are favored over sad ones. But maybe I am wrong or maybe you need to read more of the ladies' posts haha.

I think what Mozza said was very funny, it sounded a little harsh but it made a good point that actually rang true with me! You will read on these boards a lot not to believe everything the WAS says and in fact not to put too much stock in any ultimatums or pronouncements they make. Just a small example in my own situation, my H told me at BD that we had to part ways because we have nothing in common and want different things. Two months later he told me we should be friends because we have so much in common and think the same way about everything. Ummmm...ok. At BD he told me he didn't respect me. Three months later he was going on about how much he respects me and how he tells everyone how amazing I am. And when asked about many of the things he said around BD he denies having said or even thought them. So .... don't listen to everything she says. Let it wash over you like water on a duck's back.

That being said, if she says something specific about the relationship that she didn't like, take it and put it in your pocket to work on. That's a 180 for you.

Good luck Barry! Keep your chin up!

[Mozza]

Hi Barry,

Because we spoke of sadness, I decided to come on your thread to share that I'm crying a lot this afternoon, that I miss my W a lot today. I work from home so I can cry all I want in a way, but it's impeding my ability to deliver to my clients. And that's five months after the S. I've seen her on Tuesday for lunch and it brought me a few months back emotionally. Ironically, even if she was clear again that we're done for good, her difficulties have given me the impression that we will R and that is not helping me. She's back on the top of my mind, while I should be focusing on myself. Also, I'm picking up the kids this afternoon and it often makes me a little more fragile, nervous, because of the work and responsibilities it involves as a single parent.

I've cried every day for five months so far. I'm at a point where I avoid sharing as much as before about the sadness I feel. It's not because I censor myself, but because I don't want to focus on it, as everything is just fleeting moments anyway. But we're all different and at different stages.

So yes, many of us are sad. Share away.

[Karma12]

It is human to feel emotion and sadness is part of being human. As long as we don't qllow the despair to drag us down and remove all joy from our lives.

No contact or less contact is easier. It does help if the cause of your pain is not standing right in front of you! Time heals....there will be less bad days as time moves on.

[Sotto]

"Just a small example in my own situation, my H told me at BD that we had to part ways because we have nothing in common and want different things. Two months later he told me we should be friends because we have so much in common and think the same way about everything. Ummmm...ok. At BD he told me he didn't respect me. Three months later he was going on about how much he respects me and how he tells everyone how amazing I am."

Lisa, isn't that interesting what your H said. I know we all know - don't believe anything they say - but to see such a direct example of it. It does really highlight - best to take everything with a huge pinch of salt!