Gogofo - LRT letter - planning a new beginning

[gogofo]

Sandi

I have read through your very first thread that you recently posted a link to. All I can say is WOW! Your strength to be open with your feelings and fight for your M and H during those times is extraordinary.

When reading that thread I learned so much more about what my WAW must have been feeling and it even explained some of her actions. One thing that really stood out was how you explained that you wanted to fight for your H and knew he loved you, but you just did not feel attracted to him.

What hit me was how difficult it was just to be in the same room as him. I did not understand this struggle as fully as I do now. The way you explain your feelings was hitting me hard. I now see how my W would feel pressure by some of the things I was doing, but to me they did not seem to be creating pressure.

I now see how the simple act of cuddling with my W at night would make her feel overwhelmed and pressured. The way your describe your feelings and emotions were much more effective than any relationship book I have read. You just put your emotions out there, raw, and did not seek any excuses for them.

The help you received from others during your first thread was also amazing and I can see why you still hang out here.

Every LBH should be required to read this. I am still in awe of what I have learned from it.

Now I understand how my W said she was trying her hardest to work on the R, but from my perspective it did not seem like she was doing much. I did not understand the internal struggle of trying to get back those loving feelings for me. How just being near me or holding hands were great leaps for her to make in her intimacy with me.

For me my whole body ached just to hold her hand or to embrace her and kiss her. It took a team of horses to hold back the passionate feelings I had for my W. The fire was still there for me, I didn't understand that is was a faded memory for her.

I feel like a fool with some of my actions and ignorance towards the attempted reconciliation with my W. Could have, should have, would have...

I know I am rambling, but I just feel like I got a direct line into the secret mind of the WAW and her feelings towards her husband and OM.

Thanks again Sandi.

[Barrybran]

If you don't believe divorce is the answer, live your life according to that belief rather than telling her about it.

Any suggestions on how to do this, besides wearing a shirt that says "divorce is wrong"... HA!

In my mind continuing to live like a loving husband in the home while we share it is one way to do it. Don't know if this is correct or not though.

When something comes up, ask yourself if it aligns with your beliefs. The caveat is that you should also respect your wife's thoughts and feelings. If you need time to mull things over, take it.

[gogofo]

Thanks Barry.

I have been respecting her thoughts and feelings. The message behind wanting a D was that she needs a relief from pressure and cannot have me around. After reading Sandi's first post I understand more about how my presence would be pressuring her.

When she brought up D this time I did my best at listening and validating and trying to understand. I suggested that I live in the basement and live separated in the same house. She said it would never work, she is right. She feels that D is the only answer to needing time and space. I think she feels it is the only way to get me to stop with the pressure and get much needed stress relief in her life.

I now am giving her tons of space in the same house, I live in the basement (her latest decision, but I am good with it), and I will be moving out at the end of the month. I have not brought up any R talks or talks about us since the day after she told me she wanted a D. I do not check up on her or wait for her to come home.

I still act like a H in our situation, and that aligns with my beliefs.

I agree with about 95% of what she thinks we need. We need to work on ourselves right now. We cannot live together because we were doing better when separated. (This was a painful realization, but it is the truth. We moved back in together too fast. A lot of vets suggested not to do it as fast as we did, they were right. We moved in quicker than we should have, but it was mostly because of wanting to selling our house.) We, I mostly, need to re-develop a life outside of our M with friends, hobbies, etc.

Where I disagree is with getting the D, I am flat out against it.

The W has even made some big changes and choices in the last week or so. She has quickly decided to let go of "stuff" we have stored and moved between multiple houses. She has started to significantly downsize her wardrobe. She has decided to lighten her load at work, etc. All of these things I wanted during our R. At least she is doing them now as they should increase her quality of life and happiness.

Here is where I am with my beliefs:
Move out into my own home
Provide money for "child support" into our joint account
Give each other space to be and figure out ourselves
Not stress at fixing us NOW
Use separation to help us grow back together
Enjoy times together without expectations (from me)
DO NOT get the D
Basically live separated but still committed to each other. I don't think she would go for it.

My hope would be that we could figure this out, I would desire to do it with the help of the professional (MC).

What I will not do is bring up R talks or my opposition towards the D. Last time we talked about it she said "I compromised on everything, this is something I refuse to compromise on." She was very angry with this. I had worn out my welcome at this point in the talk and I am sure part of her anger was her feeling that she was not being heard and understood. Even though she started the R talks, there was only FIRE down that tunnel.

I do understand a lot, not all, of her feelings towards our M; but I just disagree with the final solution.

Sometimes I think I see a slight shift in her attitude towards me, but she could also be "acting" the good neighbor until I get out the door.

I am trying not to set any expectations except to be D, I plan on moving forward for me and the kids. Anything else would be a pleasant surprise.

[gogofo]

Going to bed, but wanted to journal a couple things that happened today that were unique.

When I got home from work my two youngest nieces were at the house and all the kids and my W were watching the Lego movie. My youngest was moody and cuddling with the W so my two nieces took it upon themselves to climb on my lap and cuddle with me. I was so happy. The middle nice even cuddled with me after she ate dinner. She specifically asked "I cuddle with you Tío?" They were too cute. They don't get much of a loving father figure in their lives because my BIL has substance problems so I think we both were getting emotional support from each other tonight. Don't think the W could ignore this as in the past she had thought that I didn't care for my nieces.

Later tonight the W had some school message boards to deal with so I readied the house for the cleaning lady tomorrow and reassembled the treadmill. The W took it upon herself to come all the way to my room in the basement to genuinely thank me for getting the house ready and putting the kids down while she did homework. She had not doing this in forever, I would get thanks from her recently, but only just as being polite.

We then went upstairs and had a candied jalapeno margarita and proceeded to openly discuss what has been going on in our jobs. It was a fairly deep conversation with discussions about stress and feelings and public funding of community colleges and free speech.

We haven't talked like that in a month.

Tonight she even showed me her dress for her college party that is 80s themed. I even got to zip and unzip her dress by request. That is the closest I have been to her in weeks. May have spiked my heart rate a little.

I thought I may have sensed a slight shift in the W again tonight. Not going to get excited or optimistic though, just going to stay the course. I will be out of town the next two to three days so that should give us some space.

[gogofo]

So after they way I felt last night I still have some detachment to do. The slight changes that may have been shown by the W last night had me smiling when I laid in bed. This brought up a thought for me.

What is the difference between hopes and expectations?

I know expectations get me in trouble and send me on the emotional roller coaster. Do hopes do the same?

I HOPE my W does not file for D and we get a chance to fix this. I do not EXPECT her to do it though.

Where is that fine line between hopes or wants and expectations? Are they one and the same? I am a big dreamer and I don't want to get emotionally invested or attached again to my dreams or my W's actions.

[sandi2]

Sandi

I have read through your very first thread that you recently posted a link to. All I can say is WOW! Your strength to be open with your feelings and fight for your M and H during those times is extraordinary.

When reading that thread I learned so much more about what my WAW must have been feeling and it even explained some of her actions. One thing that really stood out was how you explained that you wanted to fight for your H and knew he loved you, but you just did not feel attracted to him.

What hit me was how difficult it was just to be in the same room as him. I did not understand this struggle as fully as I do now. The way you explain your feelings was hitting me hard. I now see how my W would feel pressure by some of the things I was doing, but to me they did not seem to be creating pressure.

I now see how the simple act of cuddling with my W at night would make her feel overwhelmed and pressured. The way your describe your feelings and emotions were much more effective than any relationship book I have read. You just put your emotions out there, raw, and did not seek any excuses for them.

The help you received from others during your first thread was also amazing and I can see why you still hang out here.

Every LBH should be required to read this. I am still in awe of what I have learned from it.

Now I understand how my W said she was trying her hardest to work on the R, but from my perspective it did not seem like she was doing much. I did not understand the internal struggle of trying to get back those loving feelings for me. How just being near me or holding hands were great leaps for her to make in her intimacy with me.

For me my whole body ached just to hold her hand or to embrace her and kiss her. It took a team of horses to hold back the passionate feelings I had for my W. The fire was still there for me, I didn't understand that is was a faded memory for her.

I feel like a fool with some of my actions and ignorance towards the attempted reconciliation with my W. Could have, should have, would have...

I know I am rambling, but I just feel like I got a direct line into the secret mind of the WAW and her feelings towards her husband and OM.

Thanks again Sandi.

Thanks for telling me this ^ . I am glad it helped you.

[gogofo]

Thanks for telling me this ^ . I am glad it helped you.

It was a gigantic help. I still am referring to some of the things I learned from it. I was explaining part of a WAW and their mindset to my parents today.

I wish I had fully learned and embraced the fragility of the WAW much earlier in my situation. I think I needed more understanding to slow me down and keep me from not accepting all my W was giving during our attempted reconciliation.

You're thread coupled with the passion trap has shown me a lot recently. Unfortunately it will probably be too little too late right now. Just this evening my W asked for my monthly net income in order for the L to figure child support.

[gogofo]

I just reviewed the LRT pages in the DR. I think I have been doing an okay job, but find it more difficult to do when we are sharing a house together.

I think what I need to do is spend more time in the basement and start to decline invitations to have a glass of wine at the end of the night. I will need to be mentally tougher to do this.

Right now I am feeling that when we have a glass of wine and talk that I may be doing a positive towards a possible reconciliation. I don't know if that is what is really going on or if I am just too scared to stop this interaction because it brings me pleasure.

I want to do what might work, even if it goes against my feelings.

I may need to set a personal boundary about these interactions and talks. I get to feeling that there may be a chance she will change, but then she finally brought up the money issue last night that the L needs to figure child support. This was a 2x4 from her for sure. It did not hurt to bad, but I was upset when I went to sleep.

Right now I am stuck between having talks with W at night about our lives, work, etc. OR removing myself from these situations. I just don't know what to do.

I doubt it will change anything, but I want to do whatever will give me my best chance.

I had a good GAL weekend though. Thursday and Friday I was out of town for work. Friday night I hung out with some friends. Saturday night I went out of town to a boat show and came home late. Sunday I worked on and loaded furniture from the house that we are selling.

I only really talked with the W a little on Sunday morning and then for an hour last night while having a glass of wine.

[Wonka]

GoFo,

Why are you staying in the basement of your OWN house? You should take back your space and roam wherever you damn please. Why is it that LBHs self-exile to the cellar?? Makes no sense.

[gogofo]

It is not technically my house. The house we share is owned by my in-laws and we live there rent free. She has been staying there for the last year. Personally I feel I don't have much of a claim to reside there or to choose which room I can live in. I am a push over too, not trying to rock the boat since I don't feel I have a leg to stand on.

Our original plan was to sell our house we had together, live in this house rent free to save money and decide whether to build or buy a new house.

Now she has started the D process and wants me out so I am in the process of buying a new house. If I paid rent or a mortgage I would not be living in the basement. The separation is also probably good for us right now because I could not hold back my pressure very well.

She wanted me to leave two weeks ago when she thought I was trying to manipulate her. I did not tell her the day I received the dissolution papers from her L. She thought I was trying to delay and prolong the process (manipulate her), I thought her L had notified her.

We talked it through and she agreed that I could stay there until I get a place of my own.

I do roam wherever I want and treat it like it is my house as I did before the told me she is done.