Devastated Husband; Need Advice...Part 2

[TSquared2]

Hey T...

I think everyone goes through funk phases, if you didn't, I'd worry about you. Everyone gets affected by OPS (other people's sh1t/story/etc), you're human. I used to have to take breaks from the forum and re-group.

It seems like some people who I think are doing awesome at DBing...in the end, we cant control anything and the sitch's that seem to show the most promise, don't always work out. Its not in our hands. And I don't know how to deal with that.

You control yourself, and your side of the street.

Untimately, yes, things are in a higher power's hands, but my belief is that we are never given more than we can handle.

Standing, imo, first teaches us what we are made of, then it teaches us who we are, then gives us the opportunity to become who we were meant to be.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are used to being in control, that you set your mind to something and you do the needful to complete your mission...I mean, you ARE a Ranger...that's just what you do.

I get that. Very few times in my life have I failed at achieving something I set my mind, heart, soul, to. It took me a long-a$$ time to learn and accept the difference between what I controlled in reality, versus what I "thought" I controlled. Tough, and humbling, stuff.

How do you deal with that? I set up 3 month check-ins with myself...that no matter what, I was standing until day 91, then I would re-assess the sitch, myself. What do you think would work for you?

This isn't a surgical strike, it's a dig-in campaign.

I know a few people over in MLC-land, from my "class", who had reconciles...one right at divorce signing... we don't know, none do. And that is tough, we humans seem wired to want to know the future, and that is impossible.

Want to deal with this? Just focus on today, maybe on tomorrow some...Decide, just for today, what you are going to do, for YOU, for your sitch...decide that today is not the day you quit, maybe tomorrow, or next week, but not today.

You decide to accept that you only control you, you only control your actions, you only control your words. Make them match up to the man you are, the man you want to be, and the man who 10 years from looks back at this time, regardless of the outcome, and stands tall, secure that he did the right thing and everything possible. And that is valuable, buddy, very valuable...

What say you?

Hang in there!!

[TLEE86]

T2, thanks for your post. Really needed it today. I agree, I have to take breaks from this forum sometimes- just took a 2 week hiatus from it because of work but still needed.

How do you deal with that? I set up 3 month check-ins with myself...that no matter what, I was standing until day 91, then I would re-assess the sitch, myself. What do you think would work for you?

This isn't a surgical strike, it's a dig-in campaign.

You wrote this to me last time and I did set up a 3month check in. April, my birthday to be exact. I said I would keep going and would re-evaluate in April. I actually just wrote a re-assessment of my sitch a couple days ago. Reading over what I wrote, it sounded positive, even to me!

I re-read some of your posts to me a couple weeks back. I need to just do what I said. I told myself I would stick with this strategy (be there for her, listen to her, validate her, do the little things I stopped doing) for 3 more months until April and then re-assess from there.

Guess the reason I struggle is because I've been doing this strategy for 2.5 months, and Ive gotten my W nice to me, finding excuses to call/text me (no kids), but wonder how this is really helping bring her into the M. But...I'll put my head down, or keep it up in this case, and drive on until April. 2 more months and see where I'm at. I know that we won't be D or talking about D with the way things are going so right now this strategy is "safe." But you don't really get to where you want without taking risks do you?

What do you think? Am I being too chummy to my W?

As far as what I am doing today/tomorrow? Today is my off-day from working out, so getting some chores done and then watching the Superbowl (GO PATS!) Tomorrow, not sure yet besides work out and take the dogs to the park.

[TSquared2]

I know that we won't be D or talking about D with the way things are going so right now this strategy is "safe." But you don't really get to where you want without taking risks do you?

What do you think? Am I being too chummy to my W?

Imo, 4 months in? No, you are not being too chummy. Something I've read here and many other places, is that us guys take a month or so to believe a change is real, whereas women take 3-6 months...and my sitch bore this out. You are getting positive change...Just keep an eye on the pursual aspect on your end. Have you read the thread on the distancer/pursuer dance?

As far as the risk vs safe? There may be a time for risk, and, you will know when that time is, trust me, you will know, without a doubt.

Risk at the wrong time is.... ?

Besides, you are already taking a risk by DB-ing... know what I mean??

[uRworthy]

Hiya T2.

Hey Lee (mind if I call you that?.

Dbing seems counterintuitive to what you think you should be doing at times.

Here's the deal. You are too early into this to think that you are going to see any real changes from her. She needs to see consistent changes from you over time to believe they are real.

This thing isnt linear. It just isnt. It goes up and down and around...so do your feelings when in it.

So, you will have days when you feel positive and days when you feel not so positive...its what happens and its ok. The trick is not to live in the negative. That doesnt serve anyone well.

You need to nicely ask her sister not to tell you about the facebook stuff. That is just crazy making. Because the truth is you have no idea what's really going on. You then make up these stories in your head that could be true...or not, ya know?

The thing is that you have decided to stand. It is a way to honor your wife and your marriage. How long you do, is up to you.

I will tell you that if you do the work, you will not regret you did. If you make the changes you need to, if you become who you were meant to be, you wont.

I have two questions for you Do you love your wife? Is she worth you fighting for her?

I am not saying you should do this forever because you shouldnt. I am not telling you how long you should because that is an individual choice.

I am saying that the fact that you found this site shows me that you want in.

But a quick fix this isnt. An easy road...nope, not that either. A guarantee...no.

What it is, though, is an amazing opportunity for you.

The whole being too nice thing. Thats an individual choice, too.

In my opinion should you always be available? No. Because you are too busy GAL, right?

So, you dont have to always answer the phone. You dont have to answer every text right away.

She does need to see you moving forward because you are, ya know?

Gotta dig in a bit more. You can do it.

[TLEE86]

T2, URWorthy-thank you both. You guys always seem to come through when I'm in a shitty mood. I appreciate your thoughts.

[quote]You are getting positive change...Just keep an eye on the pursual aspect on your end. Have you read the thread on the distancer/pursuer dance?

Risk at the wrong time is.... ?

Yes I have T2. And I am very cognizant (wow big word) of NOT pursuing her. Ironically she is now the one initiating 90% of all conversations we have, which is daily texts and frequent phone calls. I try not to initiate, and now even today she's texting me at night saying that I've been very quiet lately (It's been 1 day. We just talked on the phone on Friday and we texted yesterday). My initiating with her is just to simply let her know that I care, but I almost always let her be the first one.

Here's the deal. You are too early into this to think that you are going to see any real changes from her. She needs to see consistent changes from you over time to believe they are real.

Got it. This is my impatience setting in. And it gets worse on days where Im in a funk. But I am getting positive change from her. My W is unhappy with herself and her life and is trying to figure it out, asking for my help- something she said she didnt want during BD. I need to give it more time. My 90 day mark is April to re-evaluate and re-think strategy.

I will tell you that if you do the work, you will not regret you did. If you make the changes you need to, if you become who you were meant to be, you wont.

I have two questions for you Do you love your wife? Is she worth you fighting for her?

1. YES I love my W. I told her that everyday, multiple times a day before we separated. YES. She is worth fighting for. Which is why I refuse to give up. And when I feel like I am close to it, I come here and you guys straighten me out. This is why I am doing the work. Because no matter what happens, I will know I gave it my all and could not have done anything different to save myself and my M.

The whole being too nice thing. Thats an individual choice, too.

In my opinion should you always be available? No. Because you are too busy GAL, right?

So, you dont have to always answer the phone. You dont have to answer every text right away.

It is a choice. I am being nice. I am being the person she fell in love with. The one that listened to her talk for 6 hours on our first date, validated her, never told her that her million good ideas a day were stupid. This is part of my 180. To just STFU, don't give advice unless asked, and then just LISTEN.

I am not as available as everyone thinks. Because of work, I have missed almost every one of her phone calls in the past month, but always call her back. I will say, that DB Coach told me to not call her back once and just see what happens. Why, Idk, but ill try it. And as I mentioned above, its been 1 day with "little contact," not none, we were on the phone friday and texted a little yesterday, but my W is telling me that I've been very quiet lately. Its been 1 day. But I agree, I can probably be even more mysterious and just pull back just a touch.

Again, thanks T2 and URWorthy. You always give great insight into things. BTW, URworthy, I cant seem to find your sitch. Can you point me in the right direction? thanks!

[Zelda09]

TLEE - Thanks for stopping by my thread.

I went back and read your first post on this one.

Question - is there any possible way you can invite her to dinner, out for drinks, and have a heart to heart? Like your DB coach said, to stay with her feelings and validate them w/o talk of your R/M or financial boundaries? And after there is a connection, leave it at that for a while and continue with your GAL until she initiates anything else?

The sitch between me and my H rapidly changed, I believe because I was able to do this over one weekend of constant contact when I stayed with him (thanks to his friend for getting us in the same room and opening that door), then a longer telephone call when HE brought 'us' up a week later, and it opened the way for him to suggest he might come home. So far he hasn't left. And it was like they say - for the first four days, he spoke in negatives and fear.

My H also assumed he was something of a trophy to me. Not that I'm not pretty hot myself, (jk) but he would constantly say he was an accessory in my life, his feelings and desires didn't matter. It's not that they didn't, but there is truth there because I was so domineering with my own. And mothering, in the way that I colored in any spots I considered to be blank and he went along with it. By the time he reached that point of anger...you know the story.

I don't have the OP sitch that you do. Sort of - there's an ex that is in the picture and my gut is she's got other motives even if he doesn't. But I can tell you that playing heavily on the GAL, limited contact thing just reinforced his idea that he didn't matter all that much to me, I was headstrong and fine without him, and he'd made the right choice. After all, I was detached the entire last year, so nothing really changed as I went along happily without him - that was my first strategy. In fact, he never initiated contact the way your W is with you. He was Done, and would respond courteously to my contact about bills and that was all. We were at least pleasant with each other and so I tried a big heart felt letter, come back home, let's try to work this out - HUGE backfire. No go there.

My strategy that finally started turning this thing around was to emotionally pursue hard (face to face - NOT text or email), and show him that his feelings and needs mattered to me and he could speak openly about it(regardless of our current condition, not a word about it or future - just talk of the past focused around his experience). Just to accept where we were. To validate, like your DB coach said. To recognize over and over again I hurt him and was willing to understand more about why. And NOT to pursue in all other ways Michelle says push them away - no begging, pleading, chasing to come back to our R, M, or talk of my gripes. To show him I was calm and prepared to move on, without ever actually talking about it. To show him love in action and let the seeds of hope plant themselves.

I realize I am new here and hesitate in sharing this as advice, it's rarely one size fits well. And who knows what is in store for me next week. But thought it may be a helpful perspective. Hugs to you.

[TLEE86]

Hey Z, thanks for the check-in. I really identify with a lot of stuff you wrote, so please don't ever hesitate to write what you think, always helps with a outside point of view.

Question - is there any possible way you can invite her to dinner, out for drinks, and have a heart to heart? Like your DB coach said, to stay with her feelings and validate them w/o talk of your R/M or financial boundaries? And after there is a connection, leave it at that for a while and continue with your GAL until she initiates anything else?

The sitch between me and my H rapidly changed, I believe because I was able to do this over one weekend of constant contact when I stayed with him

Unfortunately, this is very difficult. If you recall we're in 2 different states right now, Im in Texas, she's in TN. The last time I saw her was mid December, where we did have a heart to heart over dinner and she broke down on my throughout the night about how everything was so different and she's not sure she's making the right choices. IMO, this was also a turning point because since then, its been pretty non-stop, regular phone calls and communication. But its difficult to get her to "work up the courage" for lack of better words to fly out and see each other.

My strategy that finally started turning this thing around was to emotionally pursue hard (face to face - NOT text or email), and show him that his feelings and needs mattered to me and he could speak openly about it(regardless of our current condition, not a word about it or future - just talk of the past focused around his experience). Just to accept where we were. To validate, like your DB coach said.

This is what my DB coach said as well, and is my 180. Now that she's opened up the door to communication it gives me easy access to validate her, and "puruse" though I don't like that word, her emotionally. More, just, show her that her feelings mattered like you said, instead of the routine "uh huh, uh huh while nodding my head"

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Something that's been on my mind lately is that W has been talking about being alone, and even today on the phone she's telling me that she "longs for the feeling of home" and always finds these things to decorate the house with but never buys it because she's in a temporary place...so I wonder if all these phone calls and texts and feelings of loneliness are her missing ME and our dogs or, if she's just missing that comfortable environment where she can just be herself. I did post some pictures of the new house on FB yesterday, and W kept saying how everything is different and its weird seeing pictures of the house she picked out but she's not living in. She was telling me today that she actually cleans up her messes now at this guys apartment not because she really wants to, but feels like she's a guest there and nothing is really hers, so she feels obligated to do these things, comparing it as if she were staying at her dads house...

We've been joking a lot about things and stuff from our past which is new, so its nice to reminisce on old memories.

in the mean time, I'm just going to stick to my goal of another 90 days, so April, and re-evaluate before changing anything. Plans for today? Workout, take the dogs out, and finish unpacking the house and decorating it...usually my decorating consists of throwing up a few pictures on the wall without measuring anything so...maybe ill actually take the time to get it right on the first try...the whole "measure never, cut first always" doesn't really pan out. Oh, hey, plus one for the WAW, she's actually asked about my day a few times now.

[uRworthy]

Hey Lee. I am an oldtimer here and have had a couple of usernames so the register date isnt accurate.

Here's my story in a nutshell. My xh had a MLC...a big one. I was married 25 years at bomb date. I stood for 3 years. He had an affair with his old gf from before we started dating.

I fought with everything I had and then some. I wanted to see three things when I looked back at that time. That I honored my marriage, that I acted with dignity and strength and that I caused no harm between my son and his father. I believe I accomplished all of those.

I dbed my marriage in that he wanted to come back. Unfortunately he didnt do the work he needed to do in order for us to be successful. He still hasnt emerged from his crisis.

He did some horrific things in the divorce, but, I have forgiven him and moved forward in my life.

I do not regret standing, Lee. I believe deeply in this process.

This was a journey I was meant to go on.

I had incredible support from this forum. I have made lifelong friends. I will never forget how people I did not know reached out to me when I was in my darkest moments. I am still here because I vowed to pay it forward.

I am a success story in that I saved me.

[TLEE86]

uRWorthy, thanks for sharing that with me...I truly truly admire that. 3 years, I cant even imagine...I've said this to both you and T2, that THAT is what I want to be able to say and do. For me and also my M. That at the end of the day, I also will have acted with dignity and strength and did everything I possibly could to give my M my all. I too believe that this is a journey that I was meant to go on, hopefully it saves my M, but in the end, I have learned more about me, and M in general then I ever would have.

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Just sharing something and really just writing it down so I don't forget, but my W brought up our M tonight. And not in a bad way. First time she has brought it up in 4 months.

I get a text from her around 10pm, saying she cant sleep. We joke around a little bit, and then she says

W: I realized something about M today. The only way you are going to continue to do things for the other person and want to make them happy is if you continue to do the things that make them happy. I guess when I never pick up my clothes or clean up my messes, I took you for granted. And you stopped doing all the nice considerate things you used to do for me. And we both got used to how things were going and nothing good kept happening.

I paraphrased that a little, she sent a huge blurb that I didnt feel necessary to write. I validated, and shared that the reason I stopped doing the small stuff was not because I didnt care, but because I got focused on "providing/taking care of my W" when I didnt realize that she didnt want to be taken care of, she just wanted the attention and considerate things that I used to do.

That marriage talk didnt last long, but still felt it was a decent convo, first one we've had...and I didnt even bring it up. My takeaway from this? Sounds like she realizes it takes 2 to tango...thoughts?

[Zelda09]

If she was still swimming in the WAS mentality it would have never crossed her mind and desire to tell you about it wouldn't have been on the list, even so.

I know you're two states away but I think if you showed up, even with your boundaries and hard lines, she'd be thrilled. Just because you want to see her (not there to convince her to come back. No crystal ball, but I bet she'd be the one to bring it up anyway.) Sounds like she is reaching for you a lot. OM isn't on her mind at 10pm, you are.

But what you are doing is drawing her toward you. Have you experimented with I reaching out to her to see if she pulls away or comes toward you?