Susana (2) - Learning to detach

[susana4]

Hi Susana. If your H is wayward, he's going to make plans and not include you, and maybe not tell you until the last minute. Not very nice - but reality for you - at least for now, and possibly for a while. I think the answer is, not to try and set a boundary on this, but make your own plans and he can join you if he wants to. And if he doesn't? Well, you'll just go out and have a lovely time anyway.

Your wording sounds like you are still 'together' and would be the kind of convo you could have if that were the case - but your H has checked out of the M, remember...

Thanks Toots. I wasn't really sure if this was something I could set a boundary on or not. I have never set a boundary on anything so partially I just want to! Is it bad if I don't set any boundaries? I don't suppose I should set one just for the sake of it?

So even if we're living together and he disappears for a weekend away I can't set a boundary? We don't have children so it doesn't impact but I find it rude, even a roommate would let me know... I guess I also find a weekend away different to going out for the evening (strangely, he's been very consistent in telling me his plans for each evening at the beginning of the week).

I think it stings because it's opening up old wounds because we had this problem throughout the M - he would always tell me last minute before going to his parents for the weekend, and then insist he was sure he had told me (but he had only told me in his mind, and would always forget to actually tell me).

[Sotto]

Hi Susana - I think the problem with a boundary is - how do you enforce that one? If he goes off again to his parents without telling you, what are you going to do in response?

If you wanted to make a request, that doesn't seem unreasonable. But I wouldn't do it on the basis of - I'm on my own and I don't like it - I would choose another reason....Just want to know you're safe, so that I won't cook for you, or similar. Choose a valid reason that supports a vision of you as someone who has plans with our without him - but who just wants the courtesy of knowing (as a fellow house dweller) that he won't be around that weekend.

[susana4]

Hi Susana - I think the problem with a boundary is - how do you enforce that one? If he goes off again to his parents without telling you, what are you going to do in response?

If you wanted to make a request, that doesn't seem unreasonable. But I wouldn't do it on the basis of - I'm on my own and I don't like it - I would choose another reason....Just want to know you're safe, so that I won't cook for you, or similar. Choose a valid reason that supports a vision of you as someone who has plans with our without him - but who just wants the courtesy of knowing (as a fellow house dweller) that he won't be around that weekend.

Thanks Toots. I originally tried to set a boundary (or so I thought) but instead stated it more as something I was upset about, when he told me (I said something like "I feel upset when you tell me your plans last minute") and someone on my last thread had recommended that wording, but I see what you mean. It doesn't support the whole I am doing my own thing. And tbh I'm not annoyed so much because I'll be on my own when i don't want to, but just because I find it really rude. But I suppose it's not my place to say that so I didn't! I wasn't really sure if it was something I could set a boundary on...like I said I wasn't sure what the "if you do I will XXX" should be because I honestly couldn't think of anything.

[susana4]

Remember, us guys do have that inherent "rubber band" thing anyway (read "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus"). So it could be nothing more than that. Also, anyone who's cake-eating is going to pout and pull back if you stop being their dutiful backup plan, too.

Men are natural pursuers (the other part of the rubber band) . . . leave him be and be mysterious and all "Hey, this wasn't want I wanted, but I realize now that I'll survive" upbeat (without being annoyingly so).

So I've just read MAFMWAFV this weekend and WOW does the rubber band thing describe my husband to a T! Especially when it talks about how men lose themselves by feeling the woman's needs/feelings/etc and he can lose his sense of self if he doesn't pull away (this is *exactly* what H said as part of BD - well except that he didn't seem to recognise why it had happened, he just said he'd lost his sense of self, and that he felt overwhelmed and responsible for my feelings). Also when it talks about how men might be scared to pull away because they witnessed their mother rejecting their father, and these men might be afraid to be alone. (H absolutely refuses to be alone! I think the thought of spending even a couple of days alone terrifies him.)

Men are natural pursuers (the other part of the rubber band) - One thing I find a little strange, and I'm not sure what to make of it, is H had never asked out anyone before me. His previous Rs all started with the girl pursuing him and asking him out.

[susana4]

I'm having a really bad morning/few days and I don't really know why.

[venting session coming in 1...2...3...]

Nothing has happened or changed, externally.

H and I had a really nice conversation and a good laugh last night when he got home from his weekend at his parents.

Suppose I'm just starting to feel hopeless more than anything. And angry. Very, very angry.

I know that I'm not that far in (just 2 months since BD), but we haven't been married/together that long and i remember reading a good rule of thumb is one month per year spent together to replace negative thinking/habits (which would be 2.5 months for me, and I've been DBing since beginning of Jan).

We are still living together but I don't expect we will for that much longer, as soon as I get my job sorted out (which could be any time in the next 4-12 weeks) we'll move out (we're renting).

Once we're separated I think that's it for me, I know lots of people get back together after separating (or even after divorce) but I don't think we'll see each other (no kids, no reason to) and I'm not sure I want to.

H says he still wants to be best friends and hang out loads and I just don't want to. I don't think I can be friends with someone who gives up their commitments that easily, who doesn't fight for their M. I've lost so much respect for him, and I feel he's disrespected me and our M.

I feel, emotionally, like I'm back in the place I was post-BD and I don't get why. I was feeling better in the weeks after I started DB-ing and now I just feel like I've fallen back into a very dark place. Again, I can't sleep, I have nightmares, I can't eat...

I remember reading a few places on these boards that this happens either because something was lacking in the relationship, or in the spouse. I'm really beginning to think it's in him.

I know DB-ing is about digging deep in yourself and self-improvement. And I'm not saying I don't have areas of improvement; there are things I recognise that I want to and do plan to work on.

But I think ultimately this is his problem, and no matter how much I work on my problems I just don't think it will change the dynamics of the M. Because the ultimate problem (according to him) is that he is so scared of conflict he never has, and never will, raise any issues that are bothering him or disagree in any way. He just goes along with everything, and builds resentment over time. And I can't have any influence over that. I can't even work out problem areas and do 180s, if I don't know what was bothering him other than guesswork.

I never even had a chance to make any changes.

[susana4]

So maybe what I'm saying is (in last post)...that I'm feeling ready to "drop the rope", if I understand that phrase correctly. Not sure I do understand it. How do you know?

[Sotto]

Hi Susana, sorry you're feeling low. Please try not to feel hopeless - it is early days - and often these 1 week per year etc measures aren't that helpful - because they raise expectations. Have a look at the stockdale paradox stuff on this. But we all feel hopeless at times - we're only human and boy, it's a tough situation!

The thing that always drives me on is that I made my marriage vows earnestly. And here we are at 'for worse' and I'm not bailing out just yet. I really want to feel that I did all I possibly was able to do before giving up on our M>

For me, dropping the rope (back in Oct) meant accepting the situation and stopping the active pursuit of reconciliation with H. I stopped making contact, initiating talks, asking questions and generally being the one pulling out all the stops to try and get us back together.

At that point, my focus shifted more from him to me....and I set him 'free' to travel his path and I mine. Whether they converge at some point in the future again....well, we'll see

[susana4]

Hi Susana, sorry you're feeling low. Please try not to feel hopeless - it is early days - and often these 1 week per year etc measures aren't that helpful - because they raise expectations. Have a look at the stockdale paradox stuff on this. But we all feel hopeless at times - we're only human and boy, it's a tough situation!

The thing that always drives me on is that I made my marriage vows earnestly. And here we are at 'for worse' and I'm not bailing out just yet. I really want to feel that I did all I possibly was able to do before giving up on our M>

For me, dropping the rope (back in Oct) meant accepting the situation and stopping the active pursuit of reconciliation with H. I stopped making contact, initiating talks, asking questions and generally being the one pulling out all the stops to try and get us back together.

At that point, my focus shifted more from him to me....and I set him 'free' to travel his path and I mine. Whether they converge at some point in the future again....well, we'll see

Thanks Toots. This really resonated with me:
I really want to feel that I did all I possibly was able to do before giving up on our M> - This is exactly why I read DR, why I started DB-ing and got a DB coach and why I came to this site. At the end of the day, I want to know I gave it my all. Just need to keep this in mind. Thank you.

I guess part of what I'm struggling with is faith vs. detachment... How to detach and drop the rope, without giving up faith?

I think I'm just coming to realise (and letting it finally sink in) that I'm on a journey, and so is H, and I really don't have a part in his current journey. Much as I want to help him, this is a path he's chosen to (or needs to?) go alone.

I think right after BD if he said he wanted to reconcile I would have said yes, immediately, no questions asked. Now I'm just realising that I wouldn't say yes, unless we both had done or were doing the work.

I do honestly believe if we both do the work, we can meet again (like in H's "vision" of our future he shared with me at the therapist's office, where we took separate paths - literally - and met again). We fell in love once and I don't think you ever really lose that loving feeling. It's all a question of timing, and whether we both manage to do the work.

And of forgiveness, which I still need to work on.

[susana4]

I think partly I've been feeling down because tomorrow is my birthday but it's also 2 months since BD and I want to enjoy my day but can't stop noticing the date. I also didn't manage to get out of the house 4 days last week because of flu.

So now an effort to re-boost my PMA...

Just jotting down my GAL plans for this week so I can come back and remind myself what to look forward to

Tonight - meeting a friend for dinner (last minute plans, just got the text. He has cancer so I want to find out how he's doing). Another friend taking me to a play for my birthday later in eve.
Tomorrow (my bday) - getting my hair cut and treating myself to a massage (the theme of it is releasing your worries and anxieties). Then meeting friends for dinner & drinks.
Wednesday - nothing. Going geocaching with H (don't think this counts towards GAL though)
Thursday - cinema w/ a friend (she and I are trying to do it every week)
Saturday - planning to try belly dancing class (slightly terrified but also excited!)

[Sotto]

Hi Susana - you're probably having a bit of a dip due to illness and B'day - but that sounds like a good plan for GAL this week. I have 'survived' my birthday and our anniversary so far - both with no contact from H. For my B'day I just thought to myself - hey, I've had lots of great birthdays in my life. This one isn't so great - but what would life be if we didn't have a few Cr@@py birthdays? Not saying that yours will be of course - sounds like you have some nice things planned.

I think with the faith/detachment thing, it's about maintaining that kernel of optimism - that things will ultimately work out just fine. Either with H or alone. And either way, you'll be happy. This is where the detachment comes in. Truly, your future happiness does not depend on what happens with H. Our happiness is never entirely dependant on another person - and comes much from within - and part of DBing is re-attaching to ourselves and our own lives as individuals.

But in the meantime there is some 'brutal reality' to engage with - that of what is happening in our R's. But you'll get there, and FWIW, I think you're doing really well. I'm sure I wasn't doing half as well as you a couple of months in.

I hope you have a lovely day tomorrow x