Susana (2) - Learning to detach

[susana4]

I'm feeling really confused today - my brain seems all over the place.

I keep wondering wth I'm doing - I mean, why on earth am I trying to save my M with someone who seems so desperately to not want to be with me? And are my perceptions really so off that I didn't see this coming at all? Makes me question if everything was real. H is a good guy, really, or at least he has been an amazing partner up until now, but I do keep wondering why on earth I still love him when he's acting like this, and why I want to be with him.

And then on the other hand, I feel like *I'm missing something*. I was thinking earlier about which of H's needs I wasn't meeting and it just feels like I'm doing a guessing game on all of this. How am I supposed to figure out what his 'problem areas' with me were and then do 180s (assuming those are things I want to work on) if he never really gave me a clue because he was scared of conflict? So far I've been making 180s on things I already knew I wanted to change (before BD), or stuff he sort of implied, or I guessed he didn't like but didn't know for sure... I haven't gotten 5LL yet but I've read a few articles and taken a quiz and I think mine is quality time (followed closely by physical touch and words of affirmation), and I can see how he wasn't meeting that (but I'm not saying that was his fault, because I didn't know it and didn't tell him). But I'm not sure what his was or how I was missing out, I would have said physical touch except we were really great at that. One thing MC said was we'd ended up where we are because we "lacked a forum to express our needs."

On a sidenote, for those of you who are following my sitch and know I was snooping/worried about a potential OW, I've stopped snooping but I'm still keeping my eyes open. Although tbh all I'm getting is mixed signals. He's going home to his parents for the weekend, and I watched him pack his bags this morning. In 2 minutes flat, he opened a suitcase and dumped socks, underwear and a few t-shirts in there, just grabbing fistfuls of stuff from his drawer and then cramming it all in. He didn't take nice clothes, cologne or even a pair of pants (can only assume he's planning to wear the same jeans he wore to work this morning the entire time), so I could be wrong but it screamed 'boys weekend with the brothers', not romantic fling. Last night he was on his phone for awhile (not that long, about 10 minutes but I got suspicious), and turned away from me when I walked into the room (which set off alarm bells)...but then got into bed to watch TV and put the phone down between us, facing up (even *I* don't do that, I always put my phone face down).

One memory that keeps popping up today and I don't know why. In our last session with our first MC in December (we saw two MCs between Dec & early Jan and BOTH treated the M as dead, argh!) she asked us to spend 2 minutes visualizing how we saw our future, after the end of our M. Well, easy one - I saw a long, winding road with a few barriers on the path I'd have to get around. H saw a movie with a split screen, with one of us on each side of the split screen, walking down a road, but separately, then at the end, meeting each other in a coffee shop (and the split screen fading to full screen when we met on camera). In my head, I jumped to conclusions and it made me really hopeful because it made me think that potentially he saw a reconciliation in the future. MC saw it differently and said "ok, I get it, so you think you will be friends and meet for coffee?" I don't know why this kept coming up in my head today - maybe because it's interesting how we can come up with wildly different interpretations of something. Confusing!

[susana4]

A few things are bothering me this morning...if anyone has any ideas or suggestions on the following I would greatly appreciate some guidance here.

1. H's friend and ex-flatmate is staying over Weds night. H said they can share the sofa together (H has been sleeping on the sofa since BD). I like him and we got on when H lived with him. But I'm worried it's going to be incredibly awkward and am wondering if I should go stay with a friend. I don't want to seem weak though, this is my house and I have every right to be here...so I'm not sure what to do.

2. Boundary setting. I don't think I've ever set a boundary before (!) but I'm not really sure what boundaries to set. There is one area that's been bothering me but I don't know what my "or I will XXX" is. It really annoys me that H always forgets to tell me until the last minute when he's going away for the weekend, especially now because it's hard being alone in the house and I want to make extra GAL plans. But I don't know if this is a reasonable boundary, and I don't know what my "or I will" should be.
Here's what i have so far (thanks Train) : "I don't feel comfortable spending weekends alone at home, especially when I don't feel prepared to be alone. When you make plans to go somewhere for the weekend and fail to tell me in advance, it makes me feel upset. If you continue to leave me here alone without advanced warning, I will (insert what action you will take here)."

3. Detachment & GAL vs. 'doing what works'
I'm confused about how you detach while at the same time, keeping up your 180s and measuring what works (as DR advises). It feels like the more I GAL, the more *H* moves away and detaches himself, so then I feel like what I'm doing is not working. I know I'm not as detached as I'd like to be, because it bothers me. But how can I be detached, and also be measuring and doing what works? I mentioned this a few days ago and was told it might just be part of the process (or of H getting angry because Plan B - me - appears to be falling through). It just seems weird to me that H seems to be moving further and further away. In the weeks immediately after BD he seemed remorseful, he stayed home every night and made me dinner and cried with me and held me and told me he was sad to be giving up this life (although of course he never answered the question WHY on earth he was giving it up then!). We still went to the movies together, and had a bottle of wine and watched TV, or went to a yoga class together. Now, in the last couple of weeks since I've started to GAL, we do absolutely nothing together. We ate dinner at home together once in the last week. I am out nearly every night GAL-ing, and have pretty much arranged my schedule so I'm out whenever he's home. He in turn is out whenever I'm home, and he just goes out acting like a 21 year old and comes back sh!tfaced every. single. night. (If he weren't way too young I'd say he was having an MLC, he seems so determined to recapture his youth!) It just feels like the more I GAL, the more he GALs, and the more I detach the more he does. He's gone home for the weekend to his family and has gone NC, whereas when he was at his parents over New Year's he was texting a few times a day.

4. How to stop blaming yourself
Last, someone pointed out to me that I was self-blaming for a lot of H's behaviours and problems, and that there's a line between self-improvement as part of DBing and self-blame. I'm just not sure how to stop self-blame, any advice on what to practice or read?

[Squiggy]

Susana, you absolutely sound like an amazing woman. Have you forgotten that you are? What seems to be the general rule of thumb here is to do the 180s that have the most impact for YOU and bringing yourself closer to the person YOU want to be while also addressing the complaints your H gave.

What I've tried to focus on is remembering who I was before I met my wife, which was when I felt the strongest. Took a personal inventory of that and then added the issues I've learned about over the years and in my M. Now I am working on them. One example of an issue I have that is separate from my M, but still bothers me, is how frustrated I get when interrupted. Working with S5 is giving me loads of practice.

What are some things that you can work on?

[susana4]

Susana, you absolutely sound like an amazing woman. Have you forgotten that you are?

Thanks Squiggy. I'm trying to keep that in mind. It's just hard not to get bogged down in self-doubt right now!

What seems to be the general rule of thumb here is to do the 180s that have the most impact for YOU and bringing yourself closer to the person YOU want to be while also addressing the complaints your H gave.

What I've tried to focus on is remembering who I was before I met my wife, which was when I felt the strongest. Took a personal inventory of that and then added the issues I've learned about over the years and in my M. Now I am working on them. One example of an issue I have that is separate from my M, but still bothers me, is how frustrated I get when interrupted. Working with S5 is giving me loads of practice.

What are some things that you can work on?

H hasn't really made many complaints so most of the things I'm working on are things I want to change:
-Being less reactive in arguments, and not getting angry or defensive
-Working on my anxiety issues
-Being more optimistic & positive (I have always been so jealous of optimists and only recently did I think - why don't I just work to become one?!)

What's kind of strange to me is before I was with H I loved being single. In fact, I didn't want a relationship at all (silly H came along and I fell in love anyway ;)), I was so happy on my own and I was scared adding someone else into the mix would upset the balance. So I'm not really sure why I'm scared of losing H. I know I can and will be happy on my own. I suppose what I'm scared of is meeting someone else; I find it really hard to trust and open up to someone, and I guess I'm just scared I can't do it again especially when I feel H has violated my trust (how can I trust anyone else when the person I felt 100% sure of suddenly ended things without any warning at all?).

So I guess trust is one of the things I need to work on but I'm not sure how to do that on my own/outside a relationship.

[Complex]

Susana:
You're a great woman. Don't forget that you are worth something.
I kept forgetting that. And when you do, your H subconsciously notices too and it'll make you less attractive.
I know you have to heal right now, and learn about everything that's happening. That is good bc the faster you do that the faster you'll be able to detach for real.
I'm getting to the point where I KNOW whatever I do right now, it's going to change absolutely nothing. I have to completely let go. I have to 100% accept who W is and how she is acting. She is gone, I have to build my life without her.
This is very hard...you think you're there, but you're not. I think this process of healing takes a very long time. But I know without it our R will never ever exist.
I'm afraid it's just going to end in a friendship too.
But one thing I know, which hurts, that I love my W. I love her with all my heart.
And I'm crying writing this bc I know it's a love that's not meant to be right now, and probably never will. And I have to let go.....you see? The way I'm writing, I'm still attached. But it's a good sign if your love turns into sad understanding that's it's something that just doesn't work out.

Google for "relationships with emotionally immature people"...do you see yourself in that text?


I'm telling you all this and asking you because I see myself in a female version in you, the things that you write, your feelings and emotions. A lot of parallels.

[Squiggy]

I'm getting to the point where I KNOW whatever I do right now, it's going to change absolutely nothing. I have to completely let go. I have to 100% accept who W is and how she is acting. She is gone, I have to build my life without her.

This right here ^^^. This is the tough part that I"m having as well. However, I am really remembering that I am a person without my W as well. S5 has been telling me some interesting things about what appears to be OM. The conclusion I had to come to: If it is true, that's her choice to be unfaithful. My true self is faithful and loyal to a fault no matter what.

You said that you were happy with yourself prior to your M. What are the things about that person you enjoyed?

[Complex]

Btw Susana,
I tell you why you want to save a marriage H doesn't want.
Because you know what it means to make a commitment for life. That marriage isn't black or white. And that the institution marriage is worth fighting for.

It seems like your H is not mature enough yet. 28 for a guy, depending on the life circumstances, is fairly young (speaking from my own experience). He needs to grow up, find peace with himself and the life he wants to live. I don't want to scare you, I'm in the same position, but people like our WAS's are not ready for a life long commitment. That start to believe they'll miss out on things in life.
This is IMO something VERY hard to turn around. Because a lot of people need this phase in their life where they screw up badly, screw someone over, until they realize what it means to make a commitment or how we should treat each other.
Some of them initially don't know what love means when they get married. It's a complex thing...they change their view on love and you just don't fit in the occasion anymore, they think that's not the kind of love they want (that's my case). And if they think that, it's real...even if they still don't know what true love and marriage means. It is what it is and how are you going to change that? You just can't. You can only make the best out of it and yourself and hope that their thinking and love will change one day. But then it might be way too late already.

There's always hope tho. Some will realize faster some slower, biggest question is, will they see in you what they once did and see in you the amazing person that you've become and fall back in love with you and respect you more than ever!?

[susana4]

Complex, I think this is why they tell us not to try to mindread or speculate...we could just go on and on forever trying to figure out what is going on inside their heads or their justifications for why they leave.

Having a rough day so far, mainly I'm questioning myself though. How could I not see this coming? Was I that blind and foolish? It just felt to me like the BD came out of nowhere. I was SO happy. Like, ridiculously happy. I used to tell everyone how great a relationship we had! I honestly thought we had a near perfect M. And I thought H was happy too, he never complained about anything, he never said he was unhappy, he never looked unhappy! He constantly told me how happy and lucky he was. We did so many things together, we were trying out new things all the time and going on little adventures (so there was always excitement), we had a great sex life, we held hands all the time (every morning and evening when we walked to work together, we'd hold hands the entire way - a 40 minute walk), we were always saying ILY and telling each other how lucky we were to be together.

I just can't understand how my perceptions were THAT off.

It makes me doubt my own sense of reality.

But I am sick of feeling sad and alone. I want to come out of this fighting.

I want to feel like me again.

Squiggy, you asked what are the things about that person (prior to M) you enjoyed? I was independent, passionate, funny and kind. I think in my M I became more of all of those things, except for independent. So I need to reclaim that now.

There's always hope tho. Some will realize faster some slower, biggest question is, will they see in you what they once did and see in you the amazing person that you've become and fall back in love with you and respect you more than ever!?

I absolutely think so, it's a question of when, but if they fell in love once I definitely think they can fall in love with you again.

[susana4]

I still need some help on boundary setting, if anyone has any ideas.

I can't figure out what action to take.

"I don't feel comfortable spending weekends alone at home, especially when I don't feel prepared to be alone. When you make plans to go somewhere for the weekend and fail to tell me in advance, it makes me feel upset. If you continue to leave me here alone without advanced warning, I will (insert what action you will take here)."


Also, I am still debating whether to go stay at a friend's house Weds when H's old roommate spends the night. On the one hand, it's my house too and I have every right to be here. But on the other, it might be really awkward because I haven't seen him since BD and I don't know what he knows.

[Sotto]

Hi Susana. If your H is wayward, he's going to make plans and not include you, and maybe not tell you until the last minute. Not very nice - but reality for you - at least for now, and possibly for a while. I think the answer is, not to try and set a boundary on this, but make your own plans and he can join you if he wants to. And if he doesn't? Well, you'll just go out and have a lovely time anyway.

Your wording sounds like you are still 'together' and would be the kind of convo you could have if that were the case - but your H has checked out of the M, remember...