Singing in the Lifeboat

[daring]

Well interesting- H came by to get kids tonight and said that he has set aside most of the money he will need to pay taxes on for the distribution he took out. The small amount he will still need to pay he is saving from his current job to put in before April when it will have to be paid. I asked him if I should be preoared for there to be a big tax bill- he was very adamant that he wants me to contribute nothing towards any of his portion. ( which of course he should be, but we will see once I have the data....)
He also put together a spreadsheet of all the kids expenses each month and how much he needs to contribute and says he's going to share it with me so I can review and correct anything on it.
Who knows if it's truth but as for today he sounds like he's trying to be a responsible adult. Hope the follow through is there.

[123Gwen]

Fingers crossed for you.

[job]

That was a very interesting conversation last evening. Evidently he knows that you need the info about his wages, etc. in order to do the taxes properly. He also knows that if he doesn't provide the correct info that it will catch up w/him in the end. I do hope that he's honest and will give you all of the data you require to have the taxes done properly so that you aren't hit again by the IRS.

As for the spreadsheet, it's about time he realized what you've been putting out in the way of funds for your children, etc. I hope he mans up and stays the course and helps you out financially. You've been carrying a heavy load for quite some time.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed too.

[daring]

Thanks Job- it is about time he gets his chit together!
He actually even looked up our toll tag info and is starting to pay it off and try to set up new accounts.
So today I got some info from the lawyer in FL about the foreclosure. If he's correct it's better than we thought but there is still some risk. At least it decreases the total debt H and I have to haggle about. So I called him and told him the info- he said ok sounds like we have what we need and we should meet and look through everything again. I said yes- sounds like it. He said he called his lawyer and said he wanted to take all the petty BS off the spreadsheet ( like household goods etc) and just put the big stuff down. I responded surprised as I thought it was required. He said he thought so too until he asked her and she said he just had to sign a waiver if he didn't want the detailed itemization. ( mind reading here but I think he knows what an a$$ he looked like with the initial couple of versions of papers and is trying to not have me mad at him).
So then I mentioned that if we are going to put in the agreement that I'm paying anything towards his company loan I still want documentation. He seemed a little flustered and said " well it's not going to show anything different than I said, but ok I'll get you whatever you want". Then I just put it out there and said " for all I know you don't owe this back to anyone as I'm going to pay it and you're just going to keep it. And then I'm paying the entire IRS debt myself too". He said sounds like this is a conversation better had in person....

So I don't know if he's lying about the company repayment or what. But it's still a little fishy. I'm not doing anything without documentation and I'm at the so what point if he realizes I don't trust him.

I imagine in the next few weeks my D will then be finalized. I have mixed emotions about that. But that M is surely beyond dead- it's been run over multiple times! My next R ( H or a new one) will occur with many more tools and the benefit of my self development. Focusing on the future now......

[LiveNow]

Right there with you Daring. A few more weeks for me too. I'm sad, but I'll make it. Sounds like you will too! We got this!

[daring]

Hey LiveNow you are back! You are right we will be ok- but man this process
Su€Ks!
Warning...... Long post
So we just had our final meeting about the divorce terms. Strangely I seemed to have to push him to meet. But I'm tired of it hanging out there. It got tense for a bit. At one point he was talking about splitting up the debt and I just needed to clear the air about what I was feeling/thinking. So I said " look- here's how I see it- you blew a bunch of money the last few years, you bought vehicles instead of taking a salary for a whole year, you're only paying 10% of your kids expenses, and you're getting out of the entire IRS debt. I'm willing to listen to your proposal but I don't have much empathy for your situation." He was speechless for several minutes- and d@mn it felt good to get that out- I really needed to.
Then at another point he was talking about how I can't really say I shouldn't contribute to the foreclosed house in FL when that's a debt we both shares. I lost it at that point and pointed on the paper where we had thinks written and said " I most certainly can think that because THIS ( the IRS bill) is a joint responsibility due in a large part to your irresponsibility and in paying the whole thing so yes I can think that". And we literally stared each other down for like 60 seconds after that. Daggers were coming out of my eyes again and he looked more concerned than angry. Then I asked about the money owed to his company and said " I still don't know what that is and if I ask for documentation who knows what I'll get because they are your friends so they might just BS for you. He did come out and say he had already given one business partner what he owed him and some of it was to pay towards taxes and part of what he had used to live on "might have been" our portion of money. Ummmhmmm- as I suspected. But in the end I'm not paying a dime of it so whatever!
He asked if I felt the final result was fair. I said essentially ( I got the deal I wanted but I'm not sure the word fair really ever has a place in divorce). I said " yes I'm ok with it. But last time we met about this you said you wanted no more negativity going forward. You know its not going to be all sunshine and rainbows just because we've completed this right?" He said yes he just doesn't want to keep looking backwards. Ok.
After we got through the finances part he brought up the kids. He seemed worried I wouldn't work with him on he schedule or that I thought they didn't need to spend time with him too. What? I've never done that. So I asked more questions. He did I need to just trust him to " be himself" and make the right decisions for them based on their feelings and where they are. Ok so on the one hand yes- he loves the kids and overall is a very good dad. But on the flip side " trust him to be himself"???? I'm not even sure who that is anymore and he sure as hell doesn't seem to either. I decided not to go there though. He seemed to think part of that b/c I felt he wasn't supportive of taking S8 to counseling. He said he was supportive- I said it didn't seem like it and o think you're in denial sometimes b/c you've said all along they will be ok b/c we don't parent like our parents did. He said well yes I know S8 is having a hard time but we shouldn't project our issues onto then. wTF??? That pi$$ed me off and I said so- I did not, however, talk about him being the king of projection which is why we are where we are currently ( ie I was the bad wife). Though he doesn't completely blame me anymore. Then he started talking about how he's having absolutely no interaction with S17 and I said do you think that's related to me? He said I don't know- you're not necessarily responsible for or actually acting on my fears. Said he's just not sure.
So then I start bawling, and he could see I was really hurt. I said " I may over worry about the kids but I will never ever put them in the middle of anything or try to get them to take sides or keep them from you. You know how my parents did that to me and I would never ever put my own kids through that and don't ever think that of me. Every morning I take S17 to school and talk to him about ideas to spend time with you. When I learned you were gound to your buddy's for the Super Bowl I suggested he reach out to go." He apologized profusely, said he didn't see that so he didn't know ( ummm talk about projection and aren't you the one who chose to leave and thus would not be around to se this stuff?????)

After the couple hour conversation- he says " I know our relationship is forever changed from this process and in not thrilled about that. I'm here to listen if you want to, I still care. You may not want to and that's ok but I'm here". I said thank you. I didn't offer the same. And I didn't say I would take him up on it.
The fact that he even used the word projection means he is doing some work on himself which is good. But I need a break from him.

I know I'm not ready for a relationship but I might casually date a little bit. I feel like it will help for me to get " out there".

[job]

daring,
I'm so sorry for what you had to deal with. At least you laid all of your financial concerns out on the table and I'm glad you pointed out what you've been paying, etc. You've shouldered a huge burden and continue to do so and here he is only doing a small helping w/a small portion of the debt. Gosh, the man is one lucky duck because of that.

You have every right to have a good cry. The man is clueless and you have done everything to try to make things comfortable for him. Your h and S17 will have to work out their relationship on their own. As for your younger son, he will need some counseling to help him work through his concerns and anxiety issues (if they are there).

Please take care of yourself.

[uRworthy]

Hey sweetie. I know that was a tough conversation to have. I can feel how raw your feelings are.

Couple of things, if thats ok. I believe in this process. I believe it can save us and sometimes it saves marriages. The reason I believe in it so strongly is because it was one of the things that saved me.

I also feel that dbing isnt a one size fits all kind of a thing. Because there are different situations and different people involved, it needs to be tweaked to fit us.

I say this because many people feel that we have to STFU all the time. They think that just because our spouse is in an MLC, that we cant say anything ever. I dont agree. Sometimes things just need to be said.

So, you told him how you feel and he heard you, right? Well, that's the hope anyway.

I think it is pretty impressive that you can both sit down and hash out the financial stuff. And good on you for standing your ground considering you are taking on a lot of the debt. Nothing at all wrong with standing for you.

As far as the kids go, he has to blame you. If he doesnt, it means it is him failing them and he cant handle that fact.

My son was around your son's age when all of this went down. I did not ever say a bad word about his father. Not one. Not an eye roll, not a bad face. I did tell them both that this relationship is theirs to forge and I promise to do nothing to cause any harm to it. And then I let them do just that. It was a long, tough road to be sure. They dont have the relationship they once had or the way they could have had, but they have a good one now.

Dont allow him to make you feel that you are the cause of a breakdown in that relationship as long as you are not causing harm to it. Truthfully, your son is old enough to figure out what he wants from his dad. The more you try to fix that for them, the more resentful your son will be of you. The reason is that your telling him ways he can be with his father, kind of points out to him that the relationship is lacking. He needs to figure this out himself without any assistance from you. Your h needs to know that you are not involved.

Now about dating...not a good idea right now. Trust me on that. It will lead to you or the other person being hurt. Plenty of time for that in the future if you choose. You arent ready to date, sweetie. You just arent. You need to finish your stuff first. Its important...to you and to the other person.

There is peace on the other side, D. I promise you that. But you have to walk your journey in order to get there. There arent any short cuts. You dont want any anyway. You dont want to miss any part of it. Each step is really important.

You are doing wonderfully. ((HUGS))

[daring]

Job and UR thank you so much! I think I will have a good cry and hang out watching movies with my kids tonight!
I respect both of your input and opinions so much!

Job I really think he is clueless- I think he still thinks that I am getting the better deal out of this whole scenario. Bizarre! But I am definitely feeling better about his company loan as I knew he was hiding something and my gut was right! S8 is acting out at school and has a lot of crying spells. He also won't talk about any of the issues with H or me but has asked our nanny ( sometimes people get back together, right? Mommy and daddy are nice to each other" it just breaks my heart! We are getting him in soon with a counselor.

UR- I really appreciate you being candid with me. I can take it!!
The kid stuff is a big deal to me- he used to talk about what a wonderful caring mother I was and then for a year or two before BD up until recently he was really giving me a hard time and I let him. My guilt about starting a practice and the amount of time it took turned to shame when he was in his "mean" stage. I know that's mine to work on still.
And as far as dating- I know you are right- I just feel like I want to go out there and be ok. ( oh and my sex drive is crazy- what's that about??!!). I would never want to mess with anyone's feelings the way I feel mine have been. I'll just look at the menu for awhile but won't partake

[uRworthy]

D, you know your truth. Dont allow him or anyone else make you think otherwise.

Im sorry your son is struggling so. I hate what this does to the children. It will be a rough road for awhile, but, he will be ok. After all, he has you for a mom.

I hear ya on the sex drive thing. Ive just seen it happen way too often that someone gets badly hurt. I dont want that for you.