Seperated and she is with someone - I'm desperate

[Barry]

Hi Vdubber.

Welcome to the forum, I'm sorry that you find yourself here but you are in the right place.

I'm not a vet here (please listen to them, they know what they're talking about) and I've only been here around a month or so myself. My M is not in a good place, so temper any advice I give in the knowledge that I'm posting to you because I feel your pain brother, not that I know of any magic wand that makes it stop.

I see a lot of similarities between our sitch's. I've also been married for 20+ years, we're slightly younger but we've been together all our adult lives too. I also have 4 children, some of similar ages. I don't have a known OM in my sitch at the moment but it's only a matter of time until I'm where you are now unless we R. That doesn't seem likely at this stage.

I know exactly what you mean when you say that you don't even know how to detach. I have had the same thing, but it is crucial to your health that you try to work on yourself (for you) right now. I know it's hard but you have to try not to think of your W with the OM, it serves no purpose and the mind is a powerful thing. Don't let it be messed with.

I agree with the other posters above about protecting your children, even if you don't want to be the one to have to call the cops and say she's drink driving. The "who" does it is less important than the fact that it's done. Maybe before you get to that stage, you should raise your concerns with her about it, and the fact that she is exposing the kids to the OM. I wouldn't want that either. She will be defensive about it all etc, but you should probably try to talk with her first.

Every post above has some real wisdom in it, and all have the best advice you need right now. Please try to follow as much of it as you can. I'm doing the same in my sitch.
My W and I have been NC for 6 weeks today (she left a few days before Xmas), apart from the odd text about finances/kids but all short. I've been struggling to apply some of the DB techniques I should because I, like you, struggle to accept that my M is over. Sorry to be brutal, but your M IS over, at least in it's current form.

Our W's appear to be going through a similar thing in that they have always been a W and mother and never really had a "single life" (neither did we as H's) - they don't know who they are etc. As I say, I've heard the exact same things. There's no turning the clock back for anyone, and unfortunatly, your W (and mine) need to walk the path they have chosen. I'm sure that in time, they will see that the grass isn't always greener..

My thoughts are with you and I'll keep up with your sitch. Hop over to my thread for a read if you want ("This can't be the end!" in Newcomers), you may see some similarities and/or advice that I've recieved that can help you too.

The people here have been great, and I don't think I would be coping so well without being here.

Keep posting.

Barry.

[vdubber]

Thank you Karma, Nettles, and Barry. I agree with and appreciate the guidance you are providing. I know I've pretty much been doing the exact opposite of everything I am now learning I should be doing which has only further pushed her away.

I was successful in not contacting her yesterday at all and not saying goodnight for the first time in probably since we've known each other. I also forgot to mention that she lives 2 blocks to the East of me (and 1/2 block north), and her bar/friends are 1 block to the west of me (and 1/2 block south).

I went out of my way to and from work yesterday as well as this morning to not drive by either. It's the first time I've done this but I know it's important not to drive by as it will only hurt me more.

The daycare my kids go to is called a Boys and Girls club and is in the parking lot of their elementary school. I picked them up yesterday hoping the director would be there so I could speak with her as I wanted to know if she had any concerns or noticed any times that my W picked the kids up and seemed that she had been drinking. I will check again with her tonight. I will then call the police and discuss what they can do. I have no proof she is drunk when she picks up kids but know she is at bar for 2 hours each night before she gets them. She never had more than an occassional drink until about 2 years ago and I believe she has found alcohol as a way to cope and change.

I have kids until Monday night. I know I need to GAL but right now (at least this week) that seems to consist of getting kids (by 6pm), get them home, dinner, homework, baths, and us time. I then put them to bed and the rest of my GAL is right now reading as many of your posts and stories as possible. They seem to provide a sense of comfort knowing that I'm not the only one feeling this way.

The weekend is upon us and it's always hard for me. I've been praying for the strength to not think about W, to not contact her, but it kills me to do so.

I will try to take kids somewhere to do something fun this weekend. Next week will be very hard for me as although she has the kids, I had always stopped by in the morning and brought her a cup of coffee, kissed the kids, and started her car if it was cold. I used to do that on days when I had the kids also. This obviously has stopped about a week ago and I'm struggling as I feel a sense of loss not being able to see her if only for a minute each day.

I will start seeing my IC weekly now instead of the 3-4 week schedule we were on. She recommended it and I agree as up until I found this forum she was the only one I could talk to.

Next week when I don't have the kids will be very difficult for me as I don't really have single friends and I am not a "bar" guy unless it was with my W and our friends but those days are long gone for now at least. I ordered the DB book yesterday and I'm guessing from reading posts that I need to order the DR book as well? so I will get that ordered today.

Barry, I stayed up last night as well as woke up early this morning to read your story. I agree we have alot in common, it's amazing how we can be a world away but at the core people's struggles in life are eerily similar. I wish you the best but have no guidance to offer as I can't even help myself right now.

We did have a good marriage, at least I thought as well as she has said. People always told us how great of a couple we are and we were much liked by all of our friends. Those things make me sad as although there were warning signs with seeing W changing, I didn't know things were "broken" and take accountability for not being an awake and alert husband to our R.

I've already lost about 40 lbs over the past 4 months and don't have much more to lose but could stand going to the gym and trying to firm up my belly (lol). Beyond that I need to figure out activities and things for me that I can get involved in and meet some people.

I have seriously considered moving further away this spring as it's very difficult to be located where I am but I also don't want to be too far from the kids school. I should have mentioned that I bought a house a year ago so we have 2 houses we own (jointly). Her dad has helped me alot with the house (it's older) over this past year and we are close. We don't talk about his daughter but he knows how much I love her and the pain I feel. His wife had an A and left him 18 years ago. He has been alone ever since which honestly feels like what I have in store for me the remainder of my life.

Sorry for the sad outlook. I know I need to learn to be upbeat and think about me, much easier said than done.

[sandi2]

Hi, I was married at 18, too. Been M to the same man a really long time, and I can tell anyone who will listen that a couple who gets M that young will experience several transitions during their marital history together. Even if the law considers us an adult at 18, we certainly aren't through growing. We will probably change our ideas, dreams, opinions, like/dislikes, taste, belief, and maybe our standards to a point (to just name a few). A couple will either work together in these transitions and thereby grow together, or they will grow apart.

In this day & time, it is not unusual to experience more than one life-changing crisis by the time you've been M for 20 yrs. Not only can FB be a killer to M's, but so can stress.

Anyway, let me move along here before I start writing a book. I am truly sorry for your agony. I noticed you used the word "devastated" several times to explain your feelings. This is a word quite commonly found in LBH newcomers. Another common word I am seeing in LBH's is "fear". As a woman, that concerns me a lot. Why are so many men living in fear of their W leaving, or not loving him? I could understand if it were the woman living back 30 or 40 yrs ago, b/c she was more dependent on her spouse. Maybe someone can enlighten me.

I went through something that almost destroyed my M. I became wayward. No, I didn't go to any bars or wild sex parties.......in fact, I still appeared to be quite the proper W to any observers. But inside my home, and in my heart were the feelings and actions of anyone but a loving & respectful W. With the guidance from this board, I was able to find my true self again, and my H and I are still together. But I have to tell ya, I had my doubts. I was feeling a lot of things toward him, but love & attraction wasn't any of it.

No doubt, you love her and are suffering while separated. There are two things you need to make a drastic change right now. Lose the fear and the desperation. It sooooo unattractive when women can detect this in their man. What is the most attractive is the guy who has loads of self-confidence. You need to make this a personal goal and put it at the top of your list of improvements.

A wayward W does not want to hear proclamations of love for her, and she doesn't feel guilty or sorry that the H is devastated over the demise of the MR. You don't have to give hope, but you need to get a healthy GAL, and appear as if you are moving on.

[vdubber]

Thank you Sandi. I guess I would say my fear is based on the deep love I have for my W since she was a girl. I have always thought she was unique and special but I admit that I didnt do a good enough job of making her feel this way. At this time I cannot imagine a life without loving her and seeing her face yet this is what I am curently faced with.

I agree I do need to be stronger and I am absolutely unattractive to her. I currently have no self confidence as is obvious with all the begging and pleading I have done for months. I appreciate this forum as the friends I do have and are aware of the issue wonder why I don't just move on, it's not as simple as saying you'll stop loving someone and go find someone else. Maybe in today's day and age that is where things are but I am more traditional and believe in the vows I took and the commitment I made to love her forever. Maybe that makes me a fool. It certainly makes it more painful and has contributed to my thus far desperation and pathetic attempts at trying to make her love me.

[edz]

Hi Vdubber,

Oh I know the exact way you're feeling, I could have written that last August. W had gone to her mothers, took our son I was at the bottom of a very deep place not to mention fighting what I now recognise was serious signs of depression.

I wont go into it on your thread now but various reasons I know the way that fear wraps you up then after BD you feel like you're dangling over a deep hole.

Listen to Sandi she's fantastic and everything she's said is true, she and the others here have got me this far 6 months after BD from my w of 13 years.

Drop by my thread (its on part 10 now but my first days sounded very like yours a month after my wife left).

I'll check back in on you soon, take care, try to relax, it will be ok regardless, you will be ok but you need to calm down and, especially, try to detach - you're going to hear that a lot - and only have positive, non pursuing contact showing a positive, bright shiny you.

My W only started to think about contacting me after I stopped all of that and didnt surrender to my predisposed tendency to send long emotional emails and texts as well as good morning and goodnight texts. I have no idea if my M will reconcile and while that makes me sad, I do know I will continue, my r with my s is being rebuilt and better than the preceding 5 years and I also now accept not everything is under my control especially not my W, I can do nothing to change her, only myself.

Hang in there.

[vdubber]

Thank you Edz...I will definitely go find your thread and read through it. I've never been me as we've always been us (since 16) so although she's pushed for and apparently found "her" or at least the first phase of her, I have not done this for myself nor do I know how to. I appreciate all of your feedback.

[edz]

Hi Vdubber, you're welcome.

(Now normally I abbreviate peoples names on here....may be best not to for you )

Seriously, I know. I met w at 28 a month before my birthday we were engaged 3 months later. Together 15 years (I'm your age) she was my ~third serious relationship nothing previously lasted longer than 6 months so I understand.

I was exceedingly co-dependent, it wasn't good and when issues started I couldn't properly deal with them and internalised.

This

I've never been me as we've always been us

Is something I could (and possibly did - it's been a lot of posts since then!) have said. I didnt think of "me" just our M partnership and her going left me floundering.

I haven't caught up yet as I finished work, ooo, 3 minutes ago (WFH) but have you seen any kind of counsellor? If not, and you can, then do it. It's one of the reasons I have my sanity and helped me work through a huge number of problems that had come up both before and since w left.

Still building this new me, about my third major revision in my life, but starting to think about my needs, wants and plans. Whether w joins me in them is something I have to accept is outside of my control (that's a story for my thread though)

Remember you can do nothing unless you take care of yourself, ensure you rest, sleep well and eat properly. Look into GAL, have you got the books yet? Read them they will help. Post here and post often if you have something driving at you get a journal write in that, yell at furniture and make sure you go out of the house and dont isolate yourself (my favourite trick).

Take care matey.

[vdubber]

Thank you Edz. Yes i've been seeing a counselor every 3-4 weeks and we are now moving to weekly. We've always been co-dependant on each other and she has said as much a while back and that we need to be ourselves and go our own way to see if we belong together. That of course coincided timing wise with the OM I suppose. I ordered DB yesterday and DR today. I have read some books on reconciliation in the past 2 weeks but I'm anxious to get these ones as the concepts are discussed quite a bit on this forum.

I guess I'd say I don't know who I am but I need to figure that out. Sometimes I wish I had it in me to be completely irresponsible and do whatever the hell I wanted. I know it's not the right thing to do and it's not who I am but it frustrates me that I have to be the responsible one sometimes. I feel angry and taken advantage of. I know I contributed to where we are now but looking back I set W up with this opportunity to take off and everything my gut told me about being angry and frustrated with her actions and irresponsibility convinced me to leave thinking it would help...I was so very wrong.

I'm sure everyone on here has said this at one point or another when the first joined the forum, but I honestly am about the last person, last couple that I thought this could ever happen to...really. That shows how out of touch I was and I am with reality.

I should also admit that 2 weeks ago when she admitted to having an Emotional Connection to someone else I fell apart. I left work, went home, threw some of my clothes into my truck, grabbed some money i had saved up, climbed in my truck hopped on the freeway, picked a direction and drove for about 2 1/2 hours stopping off in a town in the next state. I stayed at a hotel there and came home the next day. I'm not proud of this, I'm just trying to be honest that I needed to get away and at the time was planning on driving the next day and next until idk what. Ultimately I thought of my kids and what they meant to me and knew they needed me in their life. If I didn't have the kids I don't know what would have happened to me, I suspect it would have been whatever the easiest path was and i'm not proud of saying that.

I have been praying alot as I do have faith and a large conscience. I feel I was somehow directed to this site as being able to read and share my heartache is what is getting me through the days.

[sandi2]

I guess I would say my fear is based on the deep love I have for my W since she was a girl.

Can you explain what you mean? How does love cause fear?

Perhaps it has already been mentioned, but if you have not read Co-dependent No More, I think it may help you see things with a different perspective.

I am very traditional also. I can appreciate the fact your wedding vows were serious to you. The WAW (or wayward wife) no longer has the same value she once did, therefore, those vows have run the course in her viewpoint. I say that to tell you this....men tend to waste time crying over how their WAW has changed and keep standing around waiting to see if the girl they M shows up. She is not the girl you M. She has changed.....drastically. In her mindset, the M is over and she has put it in the past. The more you try to change her mind, the worse you are causing her to think about you. I won't put into words just how big a turn-off this can be, b/c I know it is too painful right now to hear it. You just have to accept that the way you have handled yourself thus far is not working.

I'm going to tell you something that you probably won't hear a DB Coach say this plainly. IMO, the WAW needs to believe you are through with the pathetic chasing and begging, and that you are over her. She needs to believe you are enjoying life without her and that you are moving on. When I say she "needs" to believe it, I mean that in order for her to become interested enough in you....these things need to happen. In short, she needs to think she has lost you. I know that may not make a lot of sense to you, since she was the one who wanted out, but I am referring to the nature of most women. It's fine when she thinks she's dumping you, but she starts singing a different tune if she sees it being turned around.

I am not telling you to start dating or anything like that if you aren't ready for it. I'm just trying to get you to see the picture from her view. She was done with you and so you moved down the block from her? You have no life and keep the kids at night (every night?) while she's free to do whatever she wants. Nice for her. You have sit and mourned for her, while she just wants you to find someone else (to get you off her back). Harsh words, but that's it in a nutshell.

I know you'll say you live close by for the sake of the kids, but it really is not a good option b/c you see too much. It is like picking at a sore. Plus, she sees all she needs to see going on in your life, too. (which is nothing) So, she has nothing to be concerned about. She has you just where she wants you to stay. Not good for you, however.

Before you can "win" her back, you are going to have to change some ways about yourself. If you are willing, we can help you. It will not be easy, but you will appreciate it when all is said and done. First, you have to save yourself before you can save your M.

The Scripture talks man & woman becoming one flesh when they M. I have my own personal belief in what that means, as I suppose most people do. However, I don't believe God expected either person to not have their own self-awareness. You are an individual person, who thinks, acts, and feels independently from your S. It sounds sweet when you say you never thought of "I", but more in "we". I am sincere when I say it really sounds sweet. My grandparents were very much of that same mindset. However, if it reaches a point that it is no longer a "healthy" relationship, but more of a dependent one....then you have to take a long look at yourself and see what happened to make "you" disappear. Can you agree with me so far?

You have continued to live as though you are an extension of your W. You can't heal from this pain as long as you keep that way of thinking about yourself. You need to ween yourself from your W. It's never easy to ween ourselves from anything we feel we can't survive without. However, it can be done. And in doing so, I think a new you will start to shine through. You will learn how to live and enjoy life again. You will become the man you want to be. A man with self-confidence and one who your W may decide she'd be a fool not to have him. But whether she does or doesn't....you will be happy.

Don't believe it? There are threads on the board that tells of several who were in similar shoes, who discovered they were happy again. Some of these men were not able to save their M, but they were happy with who they had become. Does that make sense?

[Barry]

Hi vdubber.
I just wanted to say thanks for reading my story too, we're both on a long road which will (hopefully) reunite us with our W's, but that will (definatley) make us better, stronger people in the process if that's not the case. I too know someone who never remarried after a split some time ago, but he is happy that way. Two of my close friends also split, and both are now married to wonderful woman that would be the envy of many. Try to remain positive, I know how difficult that is.

I don't want to hijack your thread by talking about myself, but bear with me as this also relates to sandi's question about fear too.

Just yesterday, one of my colleagues had her 40th birthday. She bought cakes into the office for all to celebrate and when I didn't have one, she asked me why not? She is one of the select few at work who knows my sitch and I jokingly said that I had my match.com profile pic to think of (that was just a joke, I have no intention of dating) and she very kindly said that she didn't think I'd have any problems in that respect. I was quite flattered as she is a very attractive (married) woman. This is not the first comment I've received like this recently either.

I think that's the hardest thing for us both right now...the thought of not being with our W's is so foreign to us that we don't see a great future without them.
I have to say that although it's important to me to R with my W, I am actually beginning to realise that there could/should/will be an outcome to this and that may not be with my W as I would like. If you can work on your self esteem (not sure if you have issues with that but I do), women do notice and are drawn to that, and our W's are still women, even if an alien is in their head at the moment

To expand on the fear issue sandi, as I've put on my thread before, I've lived in fear for some time. Fear of not being good enough for my W, not doing enough with the kids, fear of the future. I'm sure this inner problem has been a big contributing factor in the demise of my M.

I personally look at my W and think that she is more beautiful than she ever has been, whilst I look at myself and see an "old" looking man staring back at me. I think some men get to feeling grateful that they have the W they do as they're "punching about their weight" in the looks department so the fear creeps in that if they lose that person, they will never find anyone as good again. I don't just mean in the looks department either but that always helps!

I could have that all wrong, and it may just be me that has felt that way??!

Barry.