The Hen House

[gan]

Hi All,

First, having raised objections about the Man Cave I feel a need to clarify why I am posting here. (1) Correct me if I am wrong, but as far as I can tell, Cat has not been in a cat fight (sorry, couldn't resist) with another male poster and so this is not a trap to get female posters to rally around her perspectives. Her attempt to make this about female perspectives is sincere and I'd support something similar for the men out there. I am happy for men to read along and contribute here if they want to. Let's all learn something about each other together, eh? (2) My friend Jim has raised some points and asked a question that I want to respond to. I could do it on his thread but figured it might be more useful here.

Jim - very interested to hear you say that MAFM/WAFV is accurate from your perspective. I was reading it in the weeks prior to BD and indeed I found it enlightening. Certainly I could identify times when I got roasted by the dragon because I entered the cave thinking that was what I should do. Actually, MAFM/WAFM is one of the reasons I am now leaving H be, to figure out his own $h1t. It feels completely odd as it is not at all how I would usually deal with things but that is what I am doing. I hope it was the right choice!

As for the Venusians perspective of MAFM/WAFV, there was a lot that resonated. In particular, for the first time I realised I was probably not alone in feeling a need to be comforted by H when there was conflict, even though he was the source of my pain. Sometimes I would retire to the bedroom or whatever to cry it out after a fight...and expect him to follow me and console me. Except he wouldn't and then I'd feel more hurt. And I get that now for 2 reasons. (1) Men aren't wired to do that. Martians work through their problems themselves and only after they've exhaused that will they reach out to others (if MAFM is to be believed). (2) He didn't know that is what I needed...and why would he? I mean its pretty confusing right, that the very person who inflicts the pain would be comforting. Once I figured this dynamic out I actually expressed this need to my H and I can tell you that I never felt more loved than when he came and gave be a hug after we had a fight over something or other. I could see it was a stretch for him and it made me love him even more.

But...

I also found a lot of MAFM/WAFV difficult to digest because of the subservient way in which women are portrayed. Much as I wanted to heed the advice, there's a lot in there that just doesn't seem in keeping with women's roles today (at least not mine) and I found that hard to reconcile against my view of myself. I think this comes back to Train's post about feminism. I've often wondered - now that women are educated, have high paying jobs etc - where does that leave men? I'm asking that in an empathizing way, not in a we don't need you kind of way! I question what this turn of events has done to the MAFM/WAFV dynamic. Sometimes I feel like we've just retrofitted this new social paradigm over our old biological programming and now the whole thing has had some unpredictable consequences. Like in the bedroom for example...but that is probably something to address later in the thread!

So to return to your question, Jim, I would say that yes MAFM/WAFM does offer some insights into how women think and feel about things. For me personally though, it didn't motivate me to want to respond in kind to the male perspective - largely because it felt like it contradicted my more modern social programming. HTIYMWTAI, on the other hand, had me in tears regretting a lot of the things I had said and done to H. Somehow that book did a better job at explaining the male-female dynamic while not triggering this other response in me - and made me feel much more inclined to change my ways as a result. I still can't pick it up as it makes me too sad, but I will if and when I am next in an R.