MCS, thank you. I am trying to keep the faith. I think you and I actually had this conversation about faith a few weeks ago when I brought up Broken Together-Casting Crowns. Its really difficult to let up control but right now I feel a little better knowing its in someone else' hands besides mine. ----------- T2, I'll just be honest with you. I've been reading through your thread (bear with me, 3 years worth is a lot of catching up to do). And it scares me. Your W and mine seem to have this whole thing of I need to do something for myself concept. And they base their decisions on feelings, where you and I are very logical. My W is also very attention seeking/feeling based. And it worked. For a while.
Originally Posted By: TSquared2
The huge dynamic in our R was my fixing/rescuing/protecting her. That dynamic drove her to feeling like a child, with me as the parent. One of many things I've learned in my time here is that fixin' is for things, not people.
This is my W and I to a T. She mentioned before I am a father to her, not her H. And treat her like a child. Its scary to read how similar some things are. What scared me most about these similarities is your outcome. One thread I read in particular was your response to Wet's questions. You answered that you had to see it all the way through to the end, and were not worried about quitting just before the finish. And to see her in a saner place so she could be ok in the future. It seems you are there, but your W is still searching, 3 years later. I am scared this will be me in 3 years. I admire you a lot for all you have overcome and the man you have become. But it scares me that I will have this same outcome because I don't want it. Just being honest. ---------- Just got off the phone with my DB Coach. I am shocked at some of the things she wants me to do.
1. Mix it up. My W has done 90% of the initiating and I have been discouraged to try and initiate convo's for fear of her not replying. I was told to try anyways because my W wants contact, and just because she doesn't reply once or twice, doesn't mean she doesn't want to talk to me. She's having a bad day. No expectations.
2. Buy her small little things. W's biggest complaint was I stopped doing the little things for her. Ive mentioned buying W a pizza/cookie and having it just show up on her door step but never done it lately (Rule is don't buy gifts). W called me out on it and said you always you will do that but never do (half joking). Well, I guess W will be having pizza tomorrow night. This is 180 I guess because I stopped doing this, so the rule doesn't apply as much to me.
3. Treat her as an equal and respect her opinion just like I have been lately. She told me she wanted to join the Army. Old response would be to laugh and tell her she's not serious. (She's really not, she has 100000 ideas a day). But this time, I actually validated her and made calls to my friends to find more info about it JUST IN CASE she was serious. I told her, and she was impressed I did so much leg work for her. (She hasn't brought it up since, so thank God she's not serious)
4. Introduce SKYPE/FACETIME to our convos. W says its hard for her to see me, so I will ease her into it by trying SKYPE/FACETIME and go from there.
5. Mix it up pt 2. Before I would respond 30-45minutes later. Then I was told to do it quicker, so I have. Now I need to do both. Keep her guessing. Don't let her take me for granted as always there. -------- Bottom line, I am in a good place with W as we talk daily. I was told not to worry about "OM/Roommate" because my W says she is tired of being lonely on her online blog and how it hurts because she chose this, so if OM/roommate was a serious thing, W wouldnt be complaining about it as much.
Thanks for reading...hopefully tomorrow is a good day for all of us. Oh, and cooking class confirmed, 31 JAN! Im making...idk what yet?
ME: 28 W: 24 M: 2.5yrs T: 5yrs BD: 22 SEP 14 W Leaves: 5 OCT 14
The huge dynamic in our R was my fixing/rescuing/protecting her. That dynamic drove her to feeling like a child, with me as the parent. One of many things I've learned in my time here is that fixin' is for things, not people
Sorry for the highjack here.....
TSquared2,
Woah, I read this post and I see my R to a T. My wife even said this exact thing during BD. That she always felt like I was her parent. I never saw it that way at all, nor did I act that way.
Even what you were saying about BDing, how you start off looking at just the good in the M and then all the bad, then even out. Right now I'm looking at just the bad. I see things in our R that 'I' wasn't happy with, but went along with them anyway. I figured they were just part of marriage. They were if our marriage was healthy, but are not seeing the deceit and lies that she was using to cover up things.
Also, I'm starting to understand what you are saying about coming back out of convienance and not to reconcile the R. I'm not there yet nor may I ever be there, but I could see this happening to me and me falling back into the pattern of 'rescuing' and/or 'protecting' her from the decisions she's making.
highjack over, thanks for posting....
M:36 W:37 T: 15 M:11 S6 D5 BD: 8/10/14 IDLY: 8/12/14 S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids) D Mentioned: 10/15/14 Confronted about OM: 10/15/14 EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13 She filed: 8/15 (not final)
This is something I've been thinking about too. I did a lot of 'fixing and organising' in our M - and took on a 'parenting' role at times. Was it a nurturing parent - mostly, I think. But there's also an element that if we're doing things for others, that we think we'll do them better, or sooner etc.
My H hasn't specifically said this to me. But since BD, it seems really important for him to do and figure things out for himself. He really doesn't want my help with that. Yesterday we spoke, and I offered to look something up for him about our rabbit. He said straightaway, quite firmly "no. I'll do that."
So, I think it is really important to "back off" and let our Ss do things their way. The comment - "allow someone the dignity of having their own struggles" - or something along those lines, struck a chord with me too.
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Yeah, just as an example of how this was good natured, that jumped out to me when I look back at the last month or so before BD.
W was looking to put in for a new job (something I was telling her to pursue for the last year, as she complained about work) in a position that involved the organization that I work for. So I said to her, "W when you talk to them, you should let them no that your H works down at XXXX"
Her response was "MCS, I want to get this job as an individual, not because I dropped your name"
I said "okay, I just thought it would help that they know that you are familiar with the organization I work for, no problem"
I didn't give it much thought until I looked back after BD and see this was an example of her probably feeling like she was 'under' me. It's going to be fun when we inevitability will be in meetings together at some point.
M:36 W:37 T: 15 M:11 S6 D5 BD: 8/10/14 IDLY: 8/12/14 S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids) D Mentioned: 10/15/14 Confronted about OM: 10/15/14 EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13 She filed: 8/15 (not final)
Just looked up HPD. Yep, I see the similarities in W. People would tell me W was "over-dramatic" and made big deals out of small things. Even now, she's taking interactions with me to an 11 on the scale, I've told people it's almost like she's 'acting' in how she displays how she feels.
Also, she never was satisfied about whatever plan she was involved in, it was always the next thing. This was a struggle in our M. She took any type of criticism really hard and was resentful of it, either lashing out or totally withdrawing. She used to be seductive with others beyond what was normally acceptable, but I thought that diminished over the years, until at BD she told me about multiple people over the last 15 years that she tried to 'seduce.' She left me for an OM that ended up not leaving his GF for my W. W told me this, and I think I see that the A was simply fun times for him with a friend, but W took this as a much deeper R than what it was.
I see that I nurtured this condition through our M until we had kids, then I see my patience in this decreased as I felt our focus should be in the kids not ourselves. The kids, being babies themselves also invariably took the attention away from W and that's where these symptoms started to run out of control.
I may seek some guidance from you on how to interact with W, I'm struggling with it because of some of these symptoms.
M:36 W:37 T: 15 M:11 S6 D5 BD: 8/10/14 IDLY: 8/12/14 S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids) D Mentioned: 10/15/14 Confronted about OM: 10/15/14 EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13 She filed: 8/15 (not final)
Whats interesting about this is that it seems like in every relationship, there is someone that is the more, take charge/fixer/organizer type while the other is more submissive, for lack of a better word. I can definitely relate to both Toots and MCS on this one, as I have been the one to "help/fix" with the dog or help with the job, and it never allows them to do it on their own, to get that satisfaction that they accomplished something solely on their ability and not with our help.
My W said the same thing so many WAS said, "I'm doing this on my own, I don't want YOUR help, I will do this by myself." Yet....now when things are difficult, she needs me to help her, give her that guidance. There is a fine line between giving guidance and just telling her exactly what to do. I think this is what I should have been doing all along, helping her when she asks for it but doing it in a way that doesn't come off as controlling/I know better. ------------- Weird note, I texted W this morning because I saw something that reminded me of her and shed get a laugh out of it, and she just apologizes for not being very talkative yesterday (we went 1 day without texting/calling) because she went to visit her mom. Im confused why she feels the need to apologize to me...this is a reoccurring pattern. I don't want her to apologize, it makes her feel like she's doing something wrong when she really isn't. Strange.
ME: 28 W: 24 M: 2.5yrs T: 5yrs BD: 22 SEP 14 W Leaves: 5 OCT 14
I feel like I am at my breaking point, but then I realize its only been 4 months. Not a good day today. DB Coach made me feel really good yesterday about where I am in this process and told me all the positives of how much W and I talk, and how she complains about being lonely etc etc.
But you know what? When does the WAW actually start to care about my feelings. That I am stressed beyond belief but who do I talk to about it? W still leans on me to get rid of her stresses, but when I try and talk to her about my stresses, she says "well talk about it in a couple days." W still leans on me for $. So again, I am helping my W emotionally and financially and it makes ZERO sense. She's leaving to go to this internship in Maryland next Saturday, so our financial agreement was still, as long as you are not in OM's apartment, I will honor the Army's policy of Spousal Support. And I am ok with that for now, but when does she stop taking me for granted...DB Coach seems to say I am in a good place. I feel the opposite right now. I feel like I am giving my W everything she needs and I am helping her on this "find herself" adventure. Why should I provide everything, financially & emotionally, when I didnt choose this?
Her parents are not helping in anyway. They are not asking her, so...W, what are you doing, going to this internship right now and not working and not going to school and still treating H like [censored]. Why are you expecting him to do this for you? All I want, is to just not be used and abused, emotionally and financially. I don't think I should be as available to her in both areas, but DB Coach seems to think I am in a good spot. I disagree sometimes. I am supportive of her going to this internship, because I do think it will help her find herself, MAYBE. But W is already talking about quitting it. She just said, well if i don't like it in a couple weeks I'll just stop and quit. ...REALLY? YOU HAVENT EVEN STARTED.
I guess, bottom line, her finding herself is going to take a long, LONG time. And I don't know if I am making the right decisions to help bring her back into the M. I am being a friend, but even friends don't treat each other this way.
ME: 28 W: 24 M: 2.5yrs T: 5yrs BD: 22 SEP 14 W Leaves: 5 OCT 14
Hang in there, bud. It's tough knowing exactly what to do in these sitchs. However, understand (I know) that the last thing on a WAS's mind is their spouse's feelings. It's stinks, I know. You've seen how my wife is treating my feelings and even the kids feelings. The WAS is living in their own bizarro world.
Look at the internship as forced detachment, it will also force W to live in reality for a few months. If she is still dependent on you now, it will hit her harder when she's away.
I agree with DB coach, it seems like the S is just that and she's unsure what she wants in life. She's trying to find herself. Let that help you realize that the S is not you, but someone's that's lost. As you know on my thread, this takes time and patience,
M:36 W:37 T: 15 M:11 S6 D5 BD: 8/10/14 IDLY: 8/12/14 S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids) D Mentioned: 10/15/14 Confronted about OM: 10/15/14 EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13 She filed: 8/15 (not final)
TLEE - yeah, I'm that fixer/provider, too. Part of the last straw for me was feeling so taken for granted for someone who acted like he didn't want to be in our home and have anything to do with me. I screamed at him to get out, and now look...regretting every second of that last fight.
If the long goal is to be re-united, then maybe look at DB coaches advice in those terms...unconditional friendship and love, the kind that gives without expectation, not to worry about it.
If you feel like a doormat and that is eating you up, though - did DB coach indicate it might be okay to have that conversation with her about shifting financial support a bit, or would that move you further from the goal to admit you're getting uncomfortable with dynamic?
You sound frustrated with her, like this is hardly a person you admire or respect, and you're resenting the position you're in. And I think it was your comment, that you don't know if you can hang in for years of this?
Mid 30's Psych-abusive M with violent tantrums from XH D 9/15; NC forever on
