NAJ1964 -- Yes, that completely sound familiar... I was definitely blindsided by all of this and I do know that she is way ahead in terms of where she is emotionally with this.
BklynMom -- Yes, you read that correctly... a virgin... The whole situation would seem so unbelievable to me if I wasn't watching it/experiencing it all unfold right in my own home. What has happened here would make for a great movie script -- it's that crazy.
Me 48, Her 50 (Same-Sex Couple) 3 Children Together: 9.5 years before BD BD: Week of 10/27/14 ExW started EA w OW 9/2014 ExW married OW 12/2015
I was definitely blindsided by all of this and I do know that she is way ahead in terms of where she is emotionally with this.
Yes, the are way ahead of us on detaching from the R, but we can use this time to work on ourselves and learn better R skills while they are chasing whatever it is they are looking for (in the wrong place, externally, rather than internally).
Down the road, we will be light years ahead of them in personal growth and R skills, and they will have to catch up with us if they want back in. If they don't, then we are primed for an even better new R with someone new.
As Cadet says: use the gift of time wisely
Hang in there!!
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
That's what I'm learning from being here with everyone. I am working on becoming a stronger, better version of myself for myself as well as for everyone I love -- my partner (or any other future partner), my children, my other family members, and my friends.
A good friend sent me an image with this on it yesterday: "They tried to bury us. They didn't know we were seeds." -- Mexican Proverb
Me 48, Her 50 (Same-Sex Couple) 3 Children Together: 9.5 years before BD BD: Week of 10/27/14 ExW started EA w OW 9/2014 ExW married OW 12/2015
I think you are lucky in some ways cause your W relationship with OW is over the top in some ways that I think it may blow over after this vacation.
Your W version of this OW is totally a fantasy and it seems unlikely that the OW is completely available to be in a relationship with a W from another country that has 3 kids. (Unless the OW is some kind of scam artist... you never know...)
I think you are right just keeping your cool about the vacation - don't let her see you sweat it.
Focus on yourself and your kids. 3 is definitely enough to keep you busy.
Do you have any hobbies?
---- M 39 H 35 D5,D4 M 4 T 9 ILYBNILWY 5/18/11 Left 7/11/11 Divorced 12/1/13
I think you are lucky in some ways cause your W relationship with OW is over the top in some ways that I think it may blow over after this vacation.
That is my hope/prayer as well. I don't think my W will totally be over the infatuation after this trip -- she IS going to be with a 25 year old... But I am hoping/praying that OW realizes that this isn't a healthy situation for herself and that God is working within her and around her to give her someone closer to her age who can give her a real (and more appropriate), loving R.
I am hoping/praying that God continues to work on my W during this trip and that at some point during the trip she does begin to feel some guilt -- to have at least one moment (even if brief) of realizing how reckless this is to leave the country without telling anyone... She just isn't thinking about the risks involved... And a rationally thinking adult with a family would not do something this stupid. Even if she doesn't feel guilty over the A, at least feel some guilt for making the trip under so much deception considering the risks.
When OW does pull away, I completely expect my W to become even more depressed than she is now. I know she will have to experience the grief of that loss, so I have no fantasies of her waking up after that rejection and coming back to me with her tail between her legs. I am completely prepared to see her sink further down before she starts to come back up -- and I expect this to take a long time.
Originally Posted By: BklynMom
Your W version of this OW is totally a fantasy and it seems unlikely that the OW is completely available to be in a relationship with a W from another country that has 3 kids. (Unless the OW is some kind of scam artist... you never know...)
That's what her mom, step-dad, and brother are so afraid of -- that OW is really a scam artist and that she will be in danger on this trip. Because of how they met online (which I won't go into here because it's a long story), I really don't think this is the case. I do think the OW is real and that she is a sweet, young, inexperienced woman who fell victim to my W's charms. And my W is VERY charming -- she completely swept me off my feet when we met, total love at first sight (for both for us), and I have always continued to feel completely in love with her.
I do think my W is caught up in an escape fantasy... she and OW are "in love" but are not having to deal with the mess of daily life together. My W and I fell in love very quickly as well -- but we did it in person with real life surrounding us every day... That is a completely different experience (more solid) than this fantasy A that she is involved in right now. And the A/OW is much easier to escape to than to stay here and face her own demons and work on us. And working on "us" will be even harder now when/if she emerges from this fog and realizes what she's done to "us." I am working on detaching and letting go with love -- and am willing to welcome her back to work on us at some point in the future... But it's going to be a long process because we will be building a whole new relationship together.
Originally Posted By: BklynMom
Focus on yourself and your kids. 3 is definitely enough to keep you busy.
Yes -- they certainly are more than enough! But they are great kids -- we've been very blessed to have these 3 wonderful kids. :-)
Originally Posted By: BklynMom
Do you have any hobbies?
I am an artist so I do have some stuff that I am working on right now, but I also try to play guitar for myself as a hobby. I'm not great, but I find it relaxing. I also feel like it's something that I have to stretch myself to learn (because it's not easy), so I see that as a good thing to be doing. My kids think I'm good -- so I do have a receptive audience of 3 to play to occasionally!
Beyond that I am also reaching out to my friends to try to schedule some dates with friends -- and I forgot what an amazing group of friends I have. They have been SO supportive through all of this -- like amazing, heart of gold supportive. :-)
Me 48, Her 50 (Same-Sex Couple) 3 Children Together: 9.5 years before BD BD: Week of 10/27/14 ExW started EA w OW 9/2014 ExW married OW 12/2015
Jer, welcome to a great place to be...for a lousy reason.
Originally Posted By: Jer2911
Update: Have confirmed that her upcoming "silent retreat" is indeed a trip out of the country to meet up with OW.
Oddly, I don't feel as sick about this as I thought I would. I feel no need to confront her about it. I know the truth, and confronting her about it will only make her want to go even more.
Jer---That's ^^ yet another reason for not bothering to "confirm" the A. I believe that If you knew with 100% certainty, that an A would be a final, absolute deal breaker for you, THEN I'd say "go ahead, snoop & verify & confront", etc.
But if knowing of the A isn't changing YOUR path or course of action, then why bother with the confrontational scenario? If anything, it'll push her more into OWs' arms. The more you challenge her choices, the more she'll defend them. You want her to gain some perspective, to have her own "WTH am I doing??" Moments. .
She can't have those, if she's busy "protecting" herself from your accusations.
What difference does it make to confront her? I think it's partly ego piece, (which I understand!!)
b/c we want them to know that we know...but it does Not move us closer to our real goal.
Try to remember this: Act in accordance with your goals, not how you feel at that moment.
Make sense?
I am feeling disappointed in her for making such a reckless move. She can't tell anyone where she is going -- so there will be no way for us to contact her if there is a life or death emergency here at home with me or with the kids.
Understood...but again, how does this^^ change YOUR course of action?
It doesn't. So you must let it go. In most marriage vows there's a part that says words to the effect "from this day forward".
That's a great line and it belongs here, (in marriage AND in DBing). You have to let go of what you cannot control, which is a lot in this situation.
But it's very very freeing. Secondly, it's your expectations that are disappointing you. The idea that she'd examine her choices rationally and not with self interest coloring her ability to analyze well, isn't realistic of you at this time.
BTW, I have not read your whole thread but to save time, I'd like to ask you something that might be a useful tool/reminder for you as well, but what would SHE SAY the problems in the marriage (and or you), if she were HERE?
And what 180s are you doing? The 180s are, imo, KEY to Detachment and Detachment is KEY to your w as not seeing you as the sure thing she can rely on as her back up...it's a thing you do for YOU, but the byproduct is sometimes that the WAS begins to wonder what they are doing b/c they don't always know what YOU are doing...(yes it's a paradox, but c'est la vie).
Are any of the 180s going to affect her beliefs about you? OR is she going to say or believe, that you will "never change."??
The chances of that are highly unlikely, but my W -- who she was before MLC -- would never do something like this. It is reckless -- and very expensive (for someone who is expressing to me so many concerns about money and my dependence on her financially...) WASs engaged in behavior like this, won't be affected by the judgements you are passing on her here. In fact, they'll be turned completely OFF by them.
My h's MLC (or whatever it was) cost us 6 figures in lost income and savings. I mean that, literally. But to HIM, since HE had earned more than me most years, morphed into "ONLY HE" worked and thus, he "deserved" whatever the heck HE wanted....and I was an obstacle to his happiness by pointing things out like "gee, for a guy who worries about money so much, you sure do spend..."
That always backfired on me. Always...so, take it from me, that line of reasoning or any attempts (subconscious or not) to guilt her, will backfire on you.
If guilt were useful with her, she'd have already felt it and succumbed to it. Instead, chances are that she's already convinced herself that she is entitled to search for happiness elsewhere, etc.
BTW, are you legally married? I only ask b/c it will give me some timeline in my head, to know how long it's going to take you two to untangle.
If you are legally married & have these blessed kids to cope with, that mostly helps you.
Even if it does not slow her down, it means you have multiple opportunities to show her the new improved you.
When you remind yourself that a WAS will Not return to a marriage they left,
unless........they believe the marriage can be different/better than before.
It's the LBS's job to demonstrate that. That's another part that goes with Cadet's saying to "use this gift wisely."
Time can be your friend. Doing nothing new or different can cement in her, the view that you and or the marriage cannot change.
But doing something, effectively, can help her see just the opposite.
I do know how to contact the OW if there really is a huge emergency (as in me or one of the kids seriously injured or hospitalized), and I do have family here that I can rely on... So it's not that big of a deal if there is an emergency, but this is still so out of character for my W. Then this isn't so irresponsible of her, is it? SHE will certainly use this^^^ as her reasoning and in truth, she probably did already.
which is....yet another reason to drop it.
As for my feelings right now... I'm actually doing pretty good. I suspected this anyway so it's not a shock. It is what it is. I can only hope and pray for a safe trip -- and of course, that once they are together in person that one or both have a wake up call about the situation.
This ^^^ will eventually happen, even if they remain together. Unless OW is a psychopath, they will both face the pain they have caused others and that does matter.
***SIDENOTE:
My uncle left my wonderful fun aunt, 3+ decades ago, for a married OW. I'm not sure he originally intended to actually divorce my aunt.
But when the OW's h killed himself--because of the affair--he left his 2 kids fatherless. My uncle felt guilty but not in the way I'd have assumed. He decided that HE AND ONLY HE, could raise those fatherless children...(never mind his own 2 kids...)
Anyhow, a year or so down the road, he told his mother that if he'd "known all the pain this would cause" he'd "never have left." But by then it was too late.
After all, a dead father & 2 fatherless kids, AND an abandoned wife and 2 kids of is own, is a lot of damage to leave in one's wake. It's too much for some.
Guilt and shame can keep WASs away longer, or gone for forever. That's one big reason my DB coach reminded me,
repeatedly, to "Keep the Road Home, Paved & Smooth." That's not = to being a doormat, but it does mean to keep those judgmental comments to yourself. (Don't be offended. I did the same thing with my h. )
I did judge him & I did find him wanting. IF we had divorced then, that belief might have helped me despise him, but it did nothing to help me support him in his journey or to want to reconcile.
IF your w fears you'll never let go of the A, throwing it in her face every time you two argue, or that you'll hold it over her head....she won't bother trying to reconcile - if she ever wanted to.
Do you understand what I mean by^^ this?
SIDENOTE: That same uncle cheated on his new wife (the OW!) as well. We know this b/c his "wife" (i.e., the OW to my aunt) called my aunt to ask aunt if he, the uncle, & aunt's ex h!!) was there...b/c she did not know where he was "again".
Meaning, the man was still cheating on his new wife, the 'real love of his life", 8 years later. God, what I would've given to see his face when he got home to his "new" wife...
But far more importantly, is what my aunt learned in that moment.
She said "it was at that moment that my fears & hopes were confirmed. That he really was a flawed character who'd never be faithful to any woman. And for the first time I realized how lucky I was not to have the problem his new wife/OW had...that sick to the stomach feeling you have whenever your H/W is late from work or not where you expected them to be...and you wonder...and you fear... I don't have that ache in my life anymore and I'm finally, truly grateful for that."
As for me, while she is away, I will embrace my children and shower them with my love while I continue working on myself and reaching out to my network to find a new full-time position.
Sounds like a great plan Say, do you have any FUN GAL going on? Can you create one, this month?
Oh btw, the answer to that^^, would be, "Oh, YES I can!!"
((( )))
Last edited by 25yearsmlc; 01/15/1507:27 PM.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Another valuable gem my DB coach gave me was to "Contrast the world your WAS is creating (whatever that is) with the fulfilling life you are creating for yourself and your children."
In my case, that meant H's life in Alaska, which I KNOW was dark and cold
(no matter what else was going on,), with a warm (figuratively and literally) sunny loving, FUN home life here.
There was quite a contrast. But it took time for h to notice it, despite it looking dramatically different and obviously better, to me.
So give your w something to miss. Not a sad miserable stbx, but a loving FAMILY & home life...AND a great catch (i.e. you)
and children who love her deeply. If her eyes are open (and they will be, in time)
then how can OW ever really compete?
She can't compete, ( not once the fog has lifted, anyhow.)
Make sense?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Great post with so many things to digest/respond to... I'll just say that I completely understand EVERYTHING you said in your post. I am working on all of that.
I do know what she says were my issues in our R/M -- none were deal-breakers, but those are certainly things I am working on. She has noticed my 180s, but her response right now is "too late -- where was this person years ago?" She's in rewritten-marriage mode right now and doesn't see all of my efforts over the years to continually improve myself and my efforts to meet her needs... In rewritten-marriage mode she also denies how happy we were together for at least 9.5 years... But, regardless of her current indifference to my 180s, I am going to continue them because I know they are helping me cope with all of this and I feel good about these 180s. When/If she wakes up/makes it through the tunnel, then I will be a different person who is capable of building a much healthier R/M with her or someone else.
We are not legally M, but have been together for nearly 10 years. Up until October she has always considered us married and always referred to me as her W. Not as difficult as a divorce (in terms of time, money, legal actions), but we did put into place a lot of legal documents to create as many marriage-like protections as we could for ourselves and our kids. So there are a few things to untangle... I have requested we do all of this through JC instead of trying to do it on our own at home (because of our inability to communicate very well right now), and this is slowing down the process quite a bit. So I am trying to buy more time this way -- she wants to do everything as quickly as possible and get me out of the house ASAP... So I am trying to buy more time, but I have to be very careful because stalling, or the perception of stalling, only increases her bitterness and anger towards me.
Also -- as for my fun GAL in the upcoming month... Not planning a trip (don't want to provide an opportunity for her to fly OW here to stay while I am gone), but I am planning to get out with some of my friends at least once each week (W can stay home with the kids) to feel their love and support, and have some fun with them.
Me 48, Her 50 (Same-Sex Couple) 3 Children Together: 9.5 years before BD BD: Week of 10/27/14 ExW started EA w OW 9/2014 ExW married OW 12/2015
PS So give your w something to miss. Not a sad miserable stbx, but a loving FAMILY & home life...AND a great catch (i.e. you)
and children who love her deeply. If her eyes are open (and they will be, in time)
then how can OW ever really compete?
She can't compete, ( not once the fog has lifted, anyhow.)
Make sense?
Makes sense completely... thanks for the reminder about this point. I was doing better at this a few weeks ago, but in the past couple of weeks it's been difficult because W has been in major monster mode for the past couple of weeks. Not that I've been acting sad and miserable, but I've certainly not been warm and friendly... In my IC I am working on being who I want to be (that person who does provide a warm, loving home for all of us) despite what kind of mood W is in when she gets home from work. I need to get back to working on this... Being the change I want in our home regardless of what I might be feeling on the inside.
On that point -- I did go out to be with friends last Friday night and when I got home she did ask if I had a good time and I said yes, named some of the friends I saw, and behaved like I felt -- super happy after having a good evening with friends. Monster started to emerge in W and she was in monster mode the next day... So it does seem that it does affect her when I do appear to be happy and doing okay in spite of what is going on.
Can OW compete? Heck no! I am a great catch and no one (other than my W pre-MLC) can provide our kids with the deep love and affection that I can. I'm not just saying that to make myself feel better -- I truly do believe that I am a great catch and that I can be a strong, loving partner/wife and mother for our family. OW can't compete with that because she doesn't have the life or relationship experience to understand how to make all of this work on the level that I can. OW is just an easy escape fantasy right now to someone (my W) who wants things to be easy right now -- OW is an easy escape fantasy for someone who is in a very selfish and rebellious stage right now. One day -- I hope -- W will wake up and realize all of this :-)
Me 48, Her 50 (Same-Sex Couple) 3 Children Together: 9.5 years before BD BD: Week of 10/27/14 ExW started EA w OW 9/2014 ExW married OW 12/2015
