Gogofo - no longer piecing 2nd BD - pt. 2

[HPoirot]

Things seem fragile with your R right now. Ring seems like big pressure. She hammers you and remembers she's angry when you pressure and pursue. I think you put the ring away for now.

[labug]

10 yr anniversary of your first date??? Take her to dinner or a movie.

Again, your tendency to pressure is showing.

When is her Doc program finished? I think you're going to have to cool your jets until that's done before this goes anywhere. She's got way too much on her plate (of her doing).

[gogofo]

Yes my tendency to pressure is showing.

The W and I just had a conversation about us and she said she is done. She doesn't feel happy and she is done trying.

Now to dump a little anger... She doesn't feel happy because of all the carp going on in her life. She doesn't get any peace and most of it is her creation. And to be done trying she would have needed to be trying lately anyways. I don't feel she has done her work.

She said she doesn't want to give me things I need in the relationship, like hugs cuddles etc. Said she felt she shouldn't have to try, it should come naturally. Isn't that what a relationship is, giving the other person what they need or want out of love?

I would love to get us into MC, but I doubt it would do anything different unless she was committed to trying to save the marriage.

This s#cks, I feel lied to about the times she said we could work through anything together and how different we are and how much we have grown. I know she is stressed now and doesn't see it that way, but it feels like I was lied to. I would love to tell her that but it wouldn't do any good and I would feel like carp for it.

I know it is not the end yet and there is still more time left and she has changed her mind before.

[Barrybran]

Patience, gogofo, patience. I am feeling pretty on edge myself for much the same reason: that things can work if both parties do something about it and instead, one party is convinced that things "should come easy" and they should "feel" it.

If I've learned anything throughout this process, it's that relationships are work. If both parties aren't invested, it can't work, no matter how much one party wants it to. The sad fact is, our wives will move from poor relationship to poor relationship with their current attitudes. Sure, some relationships don't work. I've yet to meet a married couple though who shouldn't have got together so if a relationship ends, citing that "should come naturally/easy" is a massive cop out.

Sorry for venting on your thread gogofo. I feel I understand where you are right now. You have worked hard and you deserve a lot better. That's not to say that your wife is in the wrong though. My wife appears to have the same attitude as yours does right now and it p***es me off no end. I've hurt her in tremendous ways though; I got what I deserved. I am in no place to make demands of my wife. I have learned to love and respect myself though and that has shaped where I am right now.

I still want my marriage to work out but not with the woman who walked through my door today. That person is cold, distant and negative and the woman I married is warm, kind and positive. I know that despite my failings, I've turned things around and I deserve to be treated with respect and to be loved. If my wife doesn't want to be that person, it's her loss. If that means my kids spend their weeks in two homes instead of one, that's not on my shoulders. If she starts dating someone else, things are going to become more difficult with me, not because I'm a vidinctive arsehole but because I won't be able to trust her and noone else has got my back; it's just me and the kids v the world and I've got to stand up for what's right as well as for what's mine.

I know I've rambled a bit here and I'm a little emotional at the moment but my point is that if you've truly made your changes and you commit to keeping those changes moving forward, you deserve good things. You deserve the best because you are the best and if your wife can't see that, tough. You will strengthen your relationships with your kids, make new friends, accomplish goals and you will deserve everything you get because you've put in the work to be a better person.

Our wives are punching us down at the moment but you've got to get up off the canvas, raise your chin and keep on fighting because you deserve the best. As Lostforwords has commented on my thread NUMEROUS times... be the changes you want to see in the world.

[gogofo]

Thanks Barry, it does suck and is frustrating and I do deserve better than the W who walked through my door tonight too. I just hate knowing that that person isn't who she really is deep down and she knows it too. The person she really is would be WORKING on us and enjoying it and all the benefits it bestows.

I have been laying awake in bed and thinking about where we have been this last year and some of the things she has said to me. One of them has got me thinking. She has said a couple of times that we should get a duplex with a single kitchen, that way she could kick me out to my side when she was sick of me. I always jokingly replied that it would never work because I would be trying to cuddle up in her bed every night anyways.

I know I am being Mr fix it and grasping at straws right now but I think she is on to something.

When she brings this up it probably matches where our relationship currently is. We both love each other, care about each other, but don't know who we are or have become right now. We both need time and space to figure it and us out, especially during times of great stress. As Bug said, I may need to weather the storm of the doctorate until things get better.

I want to propose an idea to her about our relationship and living arrangements. The house we are in now can be split into basically a duplex because the basement is finished. I want me to move into the basement and her stay upstairs and have us living in a sort of quasi split house marriage. I wouldn't bring up any sort of relationship exercises or talks and she would work on her doctorate in peace. I would definitely do this and work on my self and DB the whole time while making love bank deposits.

I like the idea and highly doubt if I brought it up now that she would be open to the idea, it would probably feel like me pushing again or only thinking about what I want, not what she wants.

I need to settle down and relax for a while but this idea has me excited. I also fear that she will contact her lawyer and go through with the paperwork.

I think it may be one of the only chances we have.

[Barrybran]

Do you want to live in a duplex?

Something that was proposed to me some time ago was "what do I want?" and "who do I want to be?" and how did the answers to these questions fit in with the parameters that my wife had set (ie. separation, division of finances, etc.). It came back to actions speaking louder than words and allowing my wife to do the heavy lifting. Something else that helped was what I would want my kids to do in the same situation. Would I want them to do a, b, c and why would I want them to do this (self-respect, respect for others, etc.)?

If you want to live in a duplex, great. If not, why would you do it?

[gogofo]

What do I want? Good question. I want to save and rebuild this marriage for me, my wife, and our kids. I want it to be in a R that is better than it was before with better understanding of each other. To do this I would live in a duplex situation as an attempt to save our marriage, and a lot more if need be.

I often equate our situation to a mid life crisis. It has a lot of similarities with selfishness, and the weird actions the person takes that are out of character for them, the whole abducted by aliens idea. Would I live in a duplex situation for the rest of my life? I don't know, it depends on if the W and I have a fulfilling relationship at that point and if it is the only way to keep it. If the R was the way it is now, no I wouldn't, but I am not prepared to give up any time soon.

Who do I want to be? I want to be a person who is self sufficient and doesn't need anyone to help him emotionally along, a person that offers a whole individual to the relationship; not a person who needs the other person to feel whole. I want to better express my feelings, good and bad. I want to be a lot less non confrontational. I want to be a person who knows how to give and receive love. I want to be an excellent father and role model to my boys.

Would I want my kids to do the same? In this situation, yes, and also similar situations. The way we get along and love each other once all the BS is pushed aside is amazing, and has been commented on by others. Am I scared it won't come back, yes, but no where near enough to discourage me.

I would encourage my kids to do the same thing out of respect for others and self respect. Respect for others because this situation affects more than just me and my W, and self respect because I would feel like I was giving up on myself if I didn't whole heartedly pursue something I believed in.

[Barrybran]

Have you read Way of the Superior Man by David Deida in your travels?

[labug]

Barry's giving you good things to think about (I know nothing about Way of the Superior Man, so can't endorse that).

You're trying to control this R and the outcome. Stop. It's that simple. Back out of her life (not your kids' lives) and give her what she wants. Show that you're listening.

I think you're smothering her and living in a duplex would be more of the same. Get out of her life except where it intersects with the kids.

About what you deserve, I don't know what you deserve. Life is what we make it based on the choices we make. Very little of it in my estimation is about what we deserve.

Make some good choices for you here.

[labug]

Barry's giving you good things to think about (I know nothing about Way of the Superior Man, so can't endorse that).

You're trying to control this R and the outcome. Stop. It's that simple. Back out of her life (not your kids' lives) and give her what she wants. Show that you're listening.

I think you're smothering her and living in a duplex would be more of the same. Get out of her life except where it intersects with the kids.

About what you deserve, I don't know what you deserve. Life is what we make it based on the choices we make. Very little of it in my estimation is about what we deserve.

Make some good choices for you here.