Devastated Husband; Need Advice...Part 2

[MCS]

TLEE,

Yep, I heard that song one of the first weeks after BD. I spent hours over the next couple months listening to it with tears in my eyes. The other one on the same album is "House of their Dreams" reading the last couple pages of your sitch, that one will hit home too. Basically, H spends life 'providing' for the family, but W gets lost and has an A, they re-center their lives to God and make amends. Both of those songs have set the foundation of where I hope the outcome of my sitch will be. I feel the same way, that for some reason; this is what I'm supposed to go through. It's the first stumble of my life that I have absolutely no control over and need to hand it off to God. Not quite sure what else in my life could do that than my W leaving when I had no clue nor was prepared.

So, don't beat yourself up with selfish prayers. You are connecting with Him and that's one of the main things he wants right now. The time will come that you'll know that your prayers should focus on others. Don't sweat it. For me, other than his help for me and my family, I pray that he helps guide my wife through this journey and allow her heart to be open to his love. Also, I pray that I have clarity that the things I'm doing are his will and not my own way of doing things.

Also, John Waller - While I'm Waiting

Try that one out to. Never thought 6 months ago, I'd be having discussions about Christian Rock on an Internet forum focused on broken M....see there is a plan that we don't understand.....

[Pink17]

Wow guys, we all need to have some backyard barbecue. It would be so much fun to talk to people that have such connection.

TL, have been busy with my own nightmare but keep following your journey. It's a hard one, lots of ups and downs as predictable. Oh boy, we all go through the same process (+ or -).

I was in your wife's shoes one day, and I always felt less important then my H. He would tell me things about his job, successes, travels and I was very jealous. I have a BD, before being married to my H I had a very good job w/a very good pay. I came to US and soon got pregnant, that started a whole new era for me. Raising children and being a stay home mom.

My inferiority complex got worse and worse. H would come home and watch football, crash on a cough, sometimes not talking to me much. I was thirsty for some adult conversation. The money issue also got to me because it was always his money, not that he wants me to feel that way, but I did anyway.

It was like I need to ask permission for everything. Over the years I felt caged, oppressed by my own toughs. Came a time that my H finally agreed to do his Masters and I was there, I did it all so he could accomplish this. During this time it was all about him. I got a little book he left on the side of the bed and it said. Wife is not happy, not much help from there, she is not helping me.

I got angry, did not talk to him about, and hold the resentment. This resentment started growing a lot inside me and finally I decide to do something on my own. I wanted to prove that I was worthy. My H did not agreed to much but did not stand in my way. I proved I was capable, but I became empty, I want validation from my H and he was not there to give it to me.

He gave me the D talk exactly a week later that I asked him for a D. I distance myself from him so much, that I felt I was in an absolute fog. God was far from me.

I told my H since the beginning of our S that I feel really unhappy that our M is dying but I feel really happy that it happen because I woke up for reality, I no longer feel the desperation to prove I am worthy, I no longer feel I have no value.

I guess I am writing you just a perspective of the other side. I feel like it's the combination of two sides. My H was working hard to accomplish what he did. It's was a lot of work for school and yet keeping the food on the table. My nagging was unbearable for him, he did not have time to babysitting me. Now I get it, before I was blind.

I said to my H other day that giving myself to God again I feel that I do not need to walk behind anyone, nor before anyone, I can just grab God's hands and walk beside everyone.

I really hope that you and your W find a common ground and can heal your hearts. You both are young and learning how to live. You are a good person, with a good heart. Eventually she will evaluate the pros and cons and will find she can rebuilt a life with you.

Keep the good faith. And I think it is right to validate her as much as you can. My H is still firm about the D, but he has been validating my every action, my behavior, my achievements. At first it felt a little fake, but now it feels more genuine.

Now, there is one thing that made it all worse for me. I came to US from another country, born and raised in a different culture. I do not have any family here, it's just me and the friends I made here. I was stressful just by that.

You did not mention wife's family, that she can have some help from family members. Is there anyone on her side?

Also, go back to school does not mean you need to go somewhere, maybe she can do online classes, they are very handy and it is the same like being in a class itself.

I also mention in my tread that my insecurities came to the M with me, I have some childhood wounds that made it easier to hide behind bad feeling and feel incapable. I want all the answers in my H and of course it all went downhill eventually.

Of course you can't fix your W neither live her life. But I just tough you can think that maybe she really needs to fix herself or she will never find herself as it is.

I will be praying for you to find you inner peace and help you to choose the right path.

Hugs,
Pink

[TLEE86]

Hi all, hope everything is going well. Pink/MCS, thanks for the check-ins.

Things have continued to go fairly well since coming back from GA on Saturday. A lot has happened.

For myself, started work again, and its taking a little getting used to these long hours again but it is definitely keeping me busy for the day. FINALLY got my household goods in today, so no more sleeping on an air mattress that my dog decided was a chew toy so it wasn't so much of an "air" mattress as just something between the floor and me. FIL had a heart attack Monday, he's fine now, but just...different/weird when its someone you know...There was a shooting on post yesterday, if you guys haven't heard it in the news already, so that was also...different. Heading to CA for 10 days in 2 weeks for work so more traveling ahead.

As far as W and I, nothing but positive interactions since Saturday. She's been regularly calling me in the mornings and usually texts me throughout the day. When she stops responding, I have been leaving it alone and just telling myself that I'll probably hear from her tomorrow and it seems to be a good method to follow, though I still get anxious sometimes.

Kinda weird but W has been regularly seeking me for advice for the past week. She asks for my opinion on different apartments she's looking at, career advice, making her feel better when her dad had his heart attack, and asking my opinion on this internship she is finally deciding to go to in 3 weeks.

This is where I struggle. Sounds like she is playing W with me and leaning on me for support, when as of now, we have not talked about R at all. Many people here would argue, she left, no emotional support. I agree, to an extent. But, talking about this to my DB Coach last week gave a different POV. She said, you're right, she's not making an effort to R right now, but who would you rather have her turn to, you or OM (EA)?

I guess that makes sense, but I'm still on the fence about it, but I shouldn't doubt DB Coach. Also keep thinking of ROBX post a while back, that when WAW is actually reaching out to you, talking to you, texting you, then STFU and enjoy it because this is the same person that said they wanted nothing to do with you 3 months ago. Don't think about R or bringing up M talks because its still way too soon.

On that note, W has been having a variety of crazy ideas lately-told me she wanted to join the Army and wanted to know if they would station us at the same place (WHAT?) But she's been texting me saying "Thank you for putting up with me," and just listening to her. Something I find ironic, and I called her out on it this morning, was that she has more than once told me "can you just please tell me what to do" regarding her career/apartment/internship. And I said I thought you hate when I tell you what to do. And she changes it to well, don't tell me what to do, just tell me what you would do if you were me.

...same thing there W...

She wants to be on her own, but she really doesn't want to be on her own...

I am slowly realizing that this is really going to be a long journey. I have said in my last post, i have some more growing to do, but W has a lot as well...Not much else I can do but keep doing what Im doing and see what happens, though it scares me like crazy to think about that since I have no idea what will happen...

Well, time to workout and take the dogs out. Thanks for stopping by

[Calibri]

For myself, started work again, and its taking a little getting used to these long hours again but it is definitely keeping me busy for the day. FINALLY got my household goods in today, so no more sleeping on an air mattress that my dog decided was a chew toy so it wasn't so much of an "air" mattress as just something between the floor and me. FIL had a heart attack Monday, he's fine now, but just...different/weird when its someone you know...There was a shooting on post yesterday, if you guys haven't heard it in the news already, so that was also...different. Heading to CA for 10 days in 2 weeks for work so more traveling ahead.

I cannot believe it takes the army that long to get your stuff to you. Cheers to sleeping in your own bed! Sorry to hear about FIL, and heyyyy, now we know what part of TX you're in (did that sound creepy, don't worry I meant for it to be. JOKING.)

This is where I struggle. Sounds like she is playing W with me and leaning on me for support, when as of now, we have not talked about R at all. Many people here would argue, she left, no emotional support. I agree, to an extent. But, talking about this to my DB Coach last week gave a different POV. She said, you're right, she's not making an effort to R right now, but who would you rather have her turn to, you or OM (EA)?

No advice on the apartment. Just, "I'm sure you'll make the right choice." I don't know if she's playing W with you but more of a friend. But I agree with your coach.

I guess that makes sense, but I'm still on the fence about it, but I shouldn't doubt DB Coach. Also keep thinking of ROBX post a while back, that when WAW is actually reaching out to you, talking to you, texting you, then STFU and enjoy it because this is the same person that said they wanted nothing to do with you 3 months ago. Don't think about R or bringing up M talks because its still way too soon.

Exactly. Although, hey, I'm freaking out in my own thread because my H is talking to me. Willingly. And im all, wtf is this!?!? So enjoy it. Personally, I don't think your W is going to be ready for the R talk for awhile. She's gotta figure herself out. She has to prove to herself, and perhaps you, that she can do everything she wants to do.

On that note, W has been having a variety of crazy ideas lately-told me she wanted to join the Army and wanted to know if they would station us at the same place (WHAT?)

Do what? Ok in what context is she saying this, for y'all to be together, or for you to be friends? I'm worried you're going to get friend zoned.

But she's been texting me saying "Thank you for putting up with me," and just listening to her.

I get a version of that from my spouse. Wonder what that means.

Something I find ironic, and I called her out on it this morning, was that she has more than once told me "can you just please tell me what to do" regarding her career/apartment/internship. And I said I thought you hate when I tell you what to do. And she changes it to well, don't tell me what to do, just tell me what you would do if you were me.

Are you the make version of me? I just had a convo with H on Monday with something similar.

She sounds indecisive as all get out. Like you said below, she wants to be own her own but she wants the perks of the M. But without being M. I feel like I'm stirring the pot here. Hopefully someone else can give you perspective.

I am slowly realizing that this is really going to be a long journey. I have said in my last post, i have some more growing to do, but W has a lot as well...Not much else I can do but keep doing what Im doing and see what happens, though it scares me like crazy to think about that since I have no idea what will happen...

I basically said the same thing tonight.

Where do you feel you still need to grow?

[TLEE86]

Journaling...

Not a good day today, feeling incredibly stressed.

Work:

I will be gone in the field for the next 3 out of 4 weeks, starting Monday, and this cycle will continue until beginning of June. I don't know what to do about my dogs. It is incredibly expensive to continuously board them, not to mention unhealthy for them. My neighbors help out, but there's only so much they can do for that long of a time.

Finances:

My pay is getting cut, because since I moved to a different unit/location, I don't get a lot of the same special pays for my job or location I did when I was in a different unit. By cut, I mean significantly, over $1600 a month- YEA, pretty rough. Makes boarding the dogs even harder

Me:

Because my work schedule is so incredibly stupid, back to waking up at 4:15, coming home by 8pm, I don't have the time nor the energy to make myself dinner. I'm losing weight and not working out as hard as I used to. Im thinking of dedicating one day on the weekend to prep food for the week and figure it out that way.

Wife:

Personally, I don't think your W is going to be ready for the R talk for awhile. She's gotta figure herself out. She has to prove to herself, and perhaps you, that she can do everything she wants to do.

She sounds indecisive as all get out. Like you said below, she wants to be own her own but she wants the perks of the M. But without being M. I feel like I'm stirring the pot here. Hopefully someone else can give you perspective.

You're right. And you know what? I'm terrified.

On average, things are positive, but I feel like they have been stagnant and nothings really changed for about 2 months now. We are in constant communication, texts/calls. But she is still hesitant to see me. DB says, when it doesn't work anymore, try something different. Idk if its "not working" as it is...its just stalled. We go through the usual, some days she talks more than others, but theres not much to change there. I don't want this to be what our M has come to. Like C said, seems like W wants perks of M without being M.

Lessons Learned recently:

1. Being a stay at home mom (SAHM? is that right?) is DIFFICULT. You get no appreciation for what you are doing, until you are no longer there. I was so used to coming home late at night, and expecting dinner on the table. Yes I said thank you but i never realized you know what? The dogs are fed, they are walked and taken care of when I am not home, dinner is made, my lunch is packed, someone actually cares about me and greets me at the door. I wish I appreciated her more. I feel like a (censored) a$$hole

2. How my W feels/felt, about not being good enough or smart enough because she didnt have a degree or "brought anything to the table" is exactly how I felt before I completed Ranger School. I felt inferior to everyone else because it was expected of me. I dedicated so much time and energy to that school and work and W took the brunt of my frustrations. And you know what? It wasn't worth it. Not to me.

I am terrified because I see my old self in my W right now. Care about nothing but yourself. Focus so much on finding yourself, and making it on your own, proving to everyone but most importantly yourself, that you are good enough. W actually told me today that she feels that this internship right now, is "her Ranger School." Sounds like just something she has to do. So as I said previously, I have realized that this journey is going to be incredibly long. And it scares me.

--------------

Debating on if I should talk to W about my stresses. She has said in the recent past that she feels distant when we hold things back from each other and how she always feels like I am so "put together," but honestly its because I never tell her anything. And that was a huge issue in our M. But I don't know if this is a good 180 to do, expressing my stresses about work/$/everything besides the M to her, because aren't we supposed to appear like everything is ok?

[MCS]

TLee,

I'm struggling with nearly the same issues as you and your W. My sitch is different, as we both worked, same industry, shared household duties, kid duties , etc. however, she still said that she had the feeling of being 'below me'. At one point said she felt like I was a boss and she was an employee. I still can't wrap my mind around most of these statements. Not that it matters, but no one can tell me things I did that made her feel that way. however with her A; I wonder if it was because I was confident and comfortable in my life over the last year and she wasn't in hers. I just wish I knew she had felt this way, I would have done anything for her to feel better.

Hang in there, the self reflection is good and the biggest part of this process. As you can see, you are now appreciating things she did for you. She's probably starting to feel the same way about things you did, thus some of the reaching out to you

[Calibri]

Noooooo who is going to post to my thread?

Will respond more tomorrow.

Sorry about the crappy day.

[Pink17]

Hi T,

It's a very hard one... to all of us to give any advice. She does not talk about R/M but is daily being married to you. She wants to be independent but needs your guidance. She has to prove herself worthy but needs almost like your approval.

Well, I will try. Somewhere along your W behavior I can see myself. I was a stay home mom and even being a strong person, I develop this habit of always seeking H advice, almost like an approval of what I was doing.

I was just unsure of what was right or wrong for me and despite of this, I also want the attention and caring.

My insecurities and fear made me very dependent and I am now learn that this dependency is not good for me. One of my M problems is that I always want my H to make me happy and he couldn't keep my happiness. I was the one to be responsible for my own happiness and I did not know how.

So, maybe for your sitch and the distance that you have right now, it will be better to be a friend but present in her life. I don't know if it is the best thing in all R, but you are not close physically and does not have any children to connect you. So, I would give more time and keep doing what you are doing. Keep some distance in your answers. Almost like she feels she is loosing you, but not 100%.

You telling your problems. I think that as long as you don't list all your issues at once, then it's not the end of the world to tell her something. She knows you are still a human being. Maybe keep yourself strong and choose what you want to share with her. Try not to be a victim, you don't want her to feel like you are the priority here.

The dogs issues are great. She likes and know them, so you being worried about their well being is nice to share with her. Maybe you can ask her opinion. In some ways she will feel you care about her opinion. And it is not about you.

Just a tough. It's hard when the WAS is all friendly. My H was all like that, calling, texting, visiting, being close. But last week I asked him to back off. In my case, he tells me he loves me one day and talks about D settlement next day. So, sorry but I need to breath and learn how to live without you.
But your situation is different. So try a little longer.

Hugs,
Pink

[TLEE86]

Pink,a lot of your points hit home for me...and I am really thankful you shared your story and your insight.

She does not talk about R/M but is daily being married to you. She wants to be independent but needs your guidance. She has to prove herself worthy but needs almost like your approval.

Somewhere along your W behavior I can see myself. I was a stay home mom and even being a strong person, I develop this habit of always seeking H advice, almost like an approval of what I was doing.

Since the beginning of our M, my W has always "sought my approval/guidance." She always looked up to me and thought I knew everything. Even today, she told me that she called me for help on something because "I would know the answer/how to solve it." At first I found it flattering, my W thinks I know the answers to everything, awesome. What she views as "H knows everything," quickly turns into "H knows best," which is not healthy. She needs to be able to make her own choices without "seeking my approval." What I have tried to do lately, is help her figure it out on her own. "The Socratic Method." Ask her questions to help her get to an answer. Sometimes, its hard, because I just want to tell her what to do, especially since she asks me to tell her what to do.

My insecurities and fear made me very dependent and I am now learn that this dependency is not good for me. One of my M problems is that I always want my H to make me happy and he couldn't keep my happiness. I was the one to be responsible for my own happiness and I did not know how.

You're right. We are all responsible for our own happiness. My W was dependent on me for it. Right now, I am trying to learn how to "find my happy."

-------------

Not too much change in the past week, still wondering if I am doing the right things because things seem stagnant, we talk daily, but no real moving forward.

Today was a little different. W called me multiple times just to talk. We got into a small argument tonight but sort of resolved it. Basically, my W is excessively indecisive. She just decided last week to go to an internship in 2 weeks for 3 months in Maryland. She has known about this for 6 months. Now she is stressed because she is scrambling to quit her job, find time to go home to see her dad (heart attack), buy cold weather clothes, and figure out what to do with her dog.

This is where I went wrong. I broke a DB rule and tried to see my W before she left. I told her I would go pick up the dog and see her at the same time. She was wavering back and forth on this. We then got into an argument about how the dog is my dog too, and that I cant believe she would even contemplate leaving the dog with her roommate.

W replied, "You know how many times i have wanted you to treat that dog like it was one of your own, and how many arguments we got into because you didnt treat her the same? I know you've been around her a long time, but for the past year, you didnt treat her the same as your dogs. It makes me mad that NOW you refer to her as 'your dog.'"

And you know what? She's right. Since W and I started having our problems, I stopped caring about her dog as much. I honestly cant even blame her for being hesitant on giving me the dog.

We ended up getting into a small R/M talk, mostly just apologizing about how I wasn't in a good place the past year, and I am really sorry for not being a better person. I told her how much I appreciated her doing all the things she did, and taking her for granted.

She took it very well, surprisingly. She said sometimes she feels her anger is going away, and then something just triggers it.

Shortly after we got off the phone, W texts me.

W: "I'm sorry its like this =( I hate that you get me so well so it [censored] when we fight."

She then goes online and posts "It's painful hearing how you realize your mistakes, especially when I know I'm not over how bad it all hurt. I used to think of you as someone that would never, ever hurt me, ever."
----------

I guess my take away from this is that there is still a lot of healing to be done on both sides. She is angry still about a lot of things, though her anger seems to be going away sometimes. I still have a lot of learning to do. Sometimes I want to give up so I don't have to deal with it anymore. But thats not what I really want.

Have to be at work at 1am tonight...so...2 hours of sleep here we go!

[Pink17]

T,

You can just assume your guilt in all you did wrong. But I am sure there were some wrongs from you W too.

Because she is the one leaving the M at this time, it all feels that you are the one destroying the M. Please, do not go there, you have your part and it's not 100%. Don't bit yourself down.

She is not seeing it very clear yet. She is angry and hurt and is feeling so much as a victim that she is blind to all what was good. One day she will realize that it's not your job or responsibility to fill the gaps for her.

Did you ever try to answer her text right away saying that sorry, have a problem, will text you later. Then do not contact her the whole day. She will be wondering what happen, but in some ways it will make her think all day of what happen to you.

Or maybe you should start trying (baby steps) make her feel like you are sleeping through her fingers. Like you are not so available to her all the time. Sometimes you are there, sometimes you are not. When you do talk to her, it's pleasant and she would like to talk to you forever. But sometimes you are not there for her. It can make her think what she is missing.

This way you do not cut contact, you keep pushing and pulling. Maybe you can make her curious. Almost the same way she is doing it to you and drives you crazy thinking about her.

It all takes time. Her anger w/you eventually will be less but for now you need to do baby steps. Does she knows you will make less money now?

These are just some ideas, think about and try to decide that if any of this can help a little and shake it a little bit.

Hope things get better.
Hugs,
Pink