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Hi GG,

The whole situation you described is awful. Everyone makes mistakes in a R, we all have our part on the conflict. I guess it is the way we manage to resolve them that makes a huge difference.

As reading many posts in this forum I came to a realization that most of us had problems with partners that were very selfish, and the world is full of those kind of people.

The reason we are here and trying to save our M already shows our character, we have learned some strong values and we already live our lives with those values.

Time to time we get involved in an emotional turmoil that breaks apart and makes us unsure of what we really believe, but deep inside we know who we are and at the end of the day, we have those values in our core.

Yes there are people that will never change, selfishness settles in and becomes the way they live. Yes there are people that are takers, they will always victimize themselves and a way of resolving their issues. Yes there are people that can't resolve their own issues and they start transferring all the guilt, insecurities, moral and character issues to their partners.

In realization, it's up to each individual to realize when enough is enough, when the abuse is bigger and stronger then love, when we draw a line to respect ourselves. It may be that the heart wants to love, but at some point we need to put in perspective that not all love is good for us.

During my life I had to choose sometimes and there were times that I decide to keep that love in my heart but no where else. That is probably what I will do about my R with my H. Will walk to D, will end the R and will keep this love in my heart, silent, just there in a box as a part of my history. But no more abuse, no more guilt, no more ups and downs.

We need to realize our own limits and respect who we are. I see many folks here accepting that they failed in many ways in their R and showing desire to get better. These are the people that are growing emotionally and psychologically, but yet crying a lost love, the one that has no desire to grow and see itself as the one with truth.

I think we all need to look in the mirror and look at that person and make a serious decision of who we really are and what we really deserve and then stand tall and with pain or without it decide that our lives belong to us and we want one that is clean, satisfying, no blames and insults.

I believe we can all get to that spot, and be happier even alone because our core have the values we can die for.

Life is Good. We better start living it.

Hugs to you all!
Pink


Pink17
S22,19 and 16
D:8/5/2015



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Well said Pink hugs to you too.

I still have a lot of mirror looking to do, I keep saying, Im working on it smile


M:44, W:46, S:10
M 13 years, T 15
BD:23/7/2014
W/S Moved to MIL: 23/7/2014
My new place: 21/11/2014
W/S back to flat 22/11/2014
W coming closer, talking 4/2015
Piecing 5/2015
Moving in again 6/2015
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Yeap, guys you do get it.

It is often the way there is a smoother and fixer in all r. It was more so the fibs, which the extent of which is only really coming out. The fact h used to say he was broke, the truth was far far from that now I see.

I always felt I had to compete, that there was no first place for me. That h needed to be first in fact h actions showed this. If h wasn't first h walked off often after a rage to do exactly what h wanted. Not even a death in my family could stop him. This is something to work on, being worthy. Finding my worth.

Ic said those times showed immaurity lack of support and empathy for my feelings. At those times h words and actions matched. Other times h words were pretty much lip service words and actions did not remotely match.

Often h would be talking support but sneering at you. His words emotions and actions were out of sync, I often didn't see the emtional disconnect or the oddness of them not being matched. Not till I have been reading extensively and had server so ah ha moments.

Yes the chritsmas thing was my lack of boundaries, but I tryed to set them but h doesn't respect other people setting limits, they don't appy to him.
H after been told in words nc with my s17, then refused to acknowledge, that s17 wants nc. It was then raised in mediation to which h pretened he could read or understand the formatting of the email he did not agree nor even acknowledge.

H was then texted my personal bounderies of c if there was to be any between s17 and ss25. Even after all of that being made clear in writing h still approached xh to seek his ok for contact with s17. Which was not ok, if h takes action on this threat of contact I will take it further.

Unfortunately h sees you working with him and being conciliatory as a way to push back your boundaries, which h does seemlessly and effortlessly, before you know where you are you are doing the things you stated hurt you.

In the spirt of compromise you end up giving up ground, h gives up nothing. In fact h is more likely to turn the table and gain more than h asked for. Hence the standing up to the bloke the other day was such a victory, refusing to take on others crapola that's not my drama is something for me to work on. Not fixing the empathising and validating I've slipped on a tad which showed the other day. Although a casual aquaintence I dint really owe then that much on the validating his feelings, it's not really my issues.,

Last edited by Ggrass; 01/08/15 11:39 PM.

M 46 h54
Both married before
T 11y
Bd 2/14 I must see where ow leads!
Ms 18 hs 26
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 8,855
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Originally Posted By: Ggrass
Although I don't know why I was even with him now when I see him, I still cannot negotiate anything with the man by way of settlement.

That I proved in mediation, h got the mediator on side by pretending to be confused, a bad communicator and joked around with her. She some how ended up on his side I think almost mothering him.

People seem to bend to him, I'm not sure how he does it. No one would believe that the man who sat in mediation and was ofended at my lone frustrated swear word, would call me names like w%##* etc. it's all about the projected fake persona. It was always behind closed doors or out of sight.


Oh yes, the covert narc, given charm can fool the best. It is very confusing because the narc reveals themselves only to those closest to them. This category represents only about 1.5% of all narcs. Sociopaths mimic normality cleverly but covert narcs don't mimic they just deny normality, they don't want it with those closest to them.

I have asked myself if my H is an overt narc, but frankly I think he is just compulsive and not narc. H doesn't care who sees so clearly he is not covert. Just plain horrid Henry.

Vanilla


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


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Mine, tends to only show off the narc traits to those he thinks won't be believed.

So a bloke he had trouble with was a druggie, so h supposely went ballistic on the man. Bloke later thrashed the inside of the wreck (car) he had sold h. Bloke couldn't call police as he was drugged and or drunk and rolled car on public road. The narc explaination would actually explain quiet a lot, tbh, it would explain why h expected me to allow things he would not be comfortable with me doing. Things like h staying spur of the moment at his xw house. His explaination was she was working night shift not home and he knew he was not with her! When asked would h mind if gg stay at xh place undersame conditions h stated no not ok, he would expect me not to. He could not see why I would have any drama with it, when he did it, but did see why he wouldn't allow it. (If any one can actually follow that explaintion) sort of like was who stays at a bf place but thinks their spouse should stay home crying for years over them.

Either that or h has some mental health issues, when we first got together he was always saying how someone snuck by the house and deliberate turned on the gas, trying to murder him. Later he blamed my Sthen5 for playing when he shouldn't. H thought people were out to get him, quiet paranoid at times.

Got some more laywer home work. Need to clarify with evidence. Make my answers clearer. Good things it's a weekend, writing the r truth can be gal for this weekend, it's supposed to rain buckets!

Having work bestie to dinner, and her hubby. Cooking roast pork, mmmmm,m crackling.
Some bubbles too, I hope.

Need to clean house tho, it's a bit rough durring the work week.

Haven't heard from s17, for days. Alhough he was quiet chatty a couple of days ago. No apology, no asking to come home, no promise of any kind or significant talk.

Returning what he gives me. Which is not much, to be allowed home he will need to show significant change and or see the pscyh. He needs to get this whole anger thing sorted once and for all. Violent tantrums with threats to harm is not ok.

Last edited by Ggrass; 01/09/15 12:19 PM.

M 46 h54
Both married before
T 11y
Bd 2/14 I must see where ow leads!
Ms 18 hs 26
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 8,855
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Sounds like a covert narc gg, but you would need to google the traits and decide for yourself.

Nothing covert about my abuser, he believes he is entitled to abuse as its my fault (for the wrong bacon). Everyone around me. Is well aware of his idiocy and abuse. Nothing hidden there.

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


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Oh Girls,

So sorry you both have these kind of situation, it's awful to endure so much pain during the time of your lives you should be enjoying it.

The truth is that we should to trace our paths that fits well for ourselves. People like the ones you describe in your life won't change, at least I do not think they can.

Sometimes I ask myself why do some people do this to the ones they are suppose to love the most. What gain is in there if they themselves life in absolute hell.

You both are better off alone, even if the heart wants something different, it is just too much to live in fear and depression.

I hope you GG and you Vanilla will find peace at some point, that you will enjoy life as it should be. Will let the past be just that, past, history.

It's quite hard to let go in a perception of having a life that we have for being married to someone, but we can let go. We all can free ourselves if there is any kind of abuse.

GG, you say you need to look for your worthy. Don't punch yourself in a head any longer. The moment you accept that your H is a maniac and there is nothing you can do to change, then you will feel free.

Keep the faith and the hard work, life will get better.

Hugs to both of you.
Pink


Pink17
S22,19 and 16
D:8/5/2015



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Ggrass Offline OP
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It was the ic that made me think h was a narc.

She listened at certain points she pointed out h actions. I blamed me, because h spew always blamed me. Remember the suppositories?

Yes I've looked at lots of narc stuff and h behaviours are very classically narc. Down to his narc dance, where h shrugs shoulders, shuffles feet and almost "dances" on the spot with a sneer!
Or his empathy act where you tell him tragic shocking news about some one h hardly knew or met. The act is wait 30seonds for effect, clap hand over mouth while gasping. Then struggle for words, then q the dramatics of over the top acting.

He would never have "abused" me in front of witnesses, that would tarnish the carefully crafted image. He always expected me to change, to be accomodating.

Which I did, which I can do, yes I feel and felt h was unable if I'm honnest. I am looking to feel my worth to know where I stand, so that I do not fall prey to this type of r again.

Where by the things I need to sustain me are put on hold. I often had to put my needs for support in times of trauma for h needs or h son. There I felt was no exclusive us, but as I was doing the giving, which became that slippery slope, if just now push that a but past then push a bit further.

When ever I put my needs out I was called selfish h used to calmly talk of how selfish it would be for the one person to over ride the needs of 2 people both h and s25.

The introspection is about moving on to better pasture while proactively keeping your pastures in order. It's about recognising why I allowed it and what I do that attracted and enabled h for so long.

When I started the settlement I had accepted it, but the way h deals with things of this order isn't to deal. It's to bully, stall and muddy the waters.
The fact I will need to prove every detail and list every damn piece of personal property some of which h denies he even has. Like stating I lost the stuff and now blame him.

I often lost stuff, but now I suspect h had an active hand. I lost a very sentimental piece of jewellery h gave me. I left it on the vanity, but it was never found. I had never lost any Jewellery before this. H stated xw always lost and broke very expensive pieces. See the connection?

His story is the same with 2 very different women. H will be very unlikely to change or take ownership. I did previous have hope, but reading so many of the narc type mlc stories I think any hope is very misplaced.

Next time with my next r I want to have a great m. Simple.


M 46 h54
Both married before
T 11y
Bd 2/14 I must see where ow leads!
Ms 18 hs 26
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,942
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Hi gg

Theres some serious introspection there I know its not an easy process my councillor who helped me helped me see the issues I had brought to the m as well as issues with my s. I based my 180s on those, we also found a lot about how we got there.

I found it was an emotional experience though, it looks like you've found a lot there and uncovered or clarified a lot, how do you feel about it all?


M:44, W:46, S:10
M 13 years, T 15
BD:23/7/2014
W/S Moved to MIL: 23/7/2014
My new place: 21/11/2014
W/S back to flat 22/11/2014
W coming closer, talking 4/2015
Piecing 5/2015
Moving in again 6/2015
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,118
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Ggrass Offline OP
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Thinks it's why I'm so tired atm and yesterday really negative. Sometimes numb, which was how this whole things started, but most importantly I have been feeling far more at peace proof since the health things that were bugging me went away, like the wart healing.

The whole fighting for my stuff is important as I let far too much ground go already. I think h considers if I don't fight for my stuff then, I still love him no matter what. Therefore he can treat me in what ever fashion he likes. He has no dare I say conscience to return stuff, I have had to push him 100%, things that are of no use to him eg my half worn out chain saw chain that he could have returned months ago, he also called lost and blamed his son.

Hence the contacting s17 father and delibetaly asking for contact after being told repeatedly no. He expects we will eventually juts allow him walk over rights, cause it's easier than standing up to his repeatedly disrespecting our bounderies. It's pretty much how he gets in the door to abuse. Constantly pushing your ideas down the slope.

So very gently you never saw it happen. It is something I need to keep reminding me of and I know I sound like a cracked record, but if I don't keep it front of mind I get pushed over and completely taken advantage of at my own hand.

I think my biggest victory is standing firm and learning how to do that in a nicer way, not having to scream and yell. Althought when someone disrespected things that are stated, it's easy to then be trained to keep using the anti.

People in general don't see the what happens before someone goes ballistic or to police.
One of my regrets was I didn't make the assult official laywer wants to see proof of charges.

It becomes a he said she said type of thing. While I do have some credible witnesses who can perhaps write statements. I know what child says is true because h when things are true refuses to admit them. Later on re writting history when he can cast doubt in your mind.

He seems to want me to keep harping to keep raising the issues even with a l?
So don't undertsand that as it will create a very clear legal trail, I'm not sure what h has to gain?

My L has said this will more than likely go against him. He has been offered to exchange stuff at any time, h has been told how he can contact to arrange collection of items.

As was told here when I turned up to collect my stuff he had lost several of the items others he said were available every excuse in the book. It was just another occasions for him to berate me. In which he needed validation, me soothing him etc. rather than complete the task at hand. sick

All things considered he hates me, wanted the r over for 4 years wanted it all yesterday I fail to understand it has me shaking my head why he refuses to just make offers of settlement as a normal human would.

Oh yeah right, narcs are far from normal they just want to hold up smoke and mirrors, which is totally what is happeing.


M 46 h54
Both married before
T 11y
Bd 2/14 I must see where ow leads!
Ms 18 hs 26
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