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Ggrass Offline OP
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Throught I better shift some one that here.

It was left of center porn. I have no problem with main stream, but the lieing about it the blaming of others for the downloads and the gaslighting of me over these sorts of issues.

That I never explained my side, when I had, then later being called unforgiving as I wanted some closure to the issues. I was manipluated into a prezel. All solutions needed to be offered by me, without offending him, nearly impossible. If h didn't like a solution he would fly In to a rage, the next few days your weren't able to speak to him it would decend In a disagreement.

I think phil coined the phrase fought over topics not the issues, h did that deliberately to shift Blame and ownership of problems to me. No issues or fight was solved unless I conceeded my position. H thought he compromised constantly but really it was and felt like unequal giving on my side.

My feeling were totally invalid in h eyes, I wasn't allowed to process stuff in my way in my terms. Wanting to process or Discuss stuff with him more than once was harping and then his action was to name call, withdraw and fly Into a rage.

The ic said "your h focused only his needs and wants hence you ended up with the outcome you didn't want."

It went a tad further than that h not only just hammered you in the back ground till you gave in, he then would talk of how selfish you would be putting your needs first. Thus making you feel small for asking.

So re writing history, gaslighting and emotional manipulation were his tools. I did not think anyone could be that calculating and thought the better you treat people the better they treat you. Um wrong.

Do I think things will be different with ow?
Well no.

What gives me that impression?
Well ow is already showing the symptoms I was, and she's only one year on the scene.
H is also not introducing her to people, she doesn't even say hello either. H is hiding her for the most part. She appears to take no pride in her, from reports.

Nothing about him is different, in fact as others have stated these new ow can only end really badly.

Hope some of that rambling makes better sense today as I'm not so tired.


M 46 h54
Both married before
T 11y
Bd 2/14 I must see where ow leads!
Ms 18 hs 26
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,942
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edz Offline
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Morning.

What your saying makes perfect sense Gg.

I cant say his actions make any to me, there seems to be a huge drive of rage and control issues there which is remarkably easy for me to say, I didn't live through it, considering all the chit you've dealt with it shows the strength of your character that you not only are not hiding away but are grabbing the world by...the collar...and telling it what you want, you'll get it too if I'm any judge.

Don't necessarily believe that 'the better you treat people the better they treat you' is wrong, I've found over the years (mostly to my detriment) that if I'm true to myself that's how I tend to want to be and if the last 6 months (or indeed 5 years) have taught me anything its to not try to be someone I'm not or to hide me away because things arent working. Just means I'm not communicating properly or, indeed, maybe to the wrong people, still working that one out.

It certainly doesn't sound to me like H is making any changes to himself unless that's reflected in the OW situation collapsing. Has there ever been any sign that he would want to listen and stop being that way or would that just be the sort of situation you described above, rage over criticism?

You stay safe Gg


M:44, W:46, S:10
M 13 years, T 15
BD:23/7/2014
W/S Moved to MIL: 23/7/2014
My new place: 21/11/2014
W/S back to flat 22/11/2014
W coming closer, talking 4/2015
Piecing 5/2015
Moving in again 6/2015
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Edz, that's a really good post.

GGrass it sounds like your H is pretty horrible, I don't want to defend him because if the bane calling but you said

Originally Posted By: Ggrass

The ic said "your h focused only his needs and wants hence you ended up with the outcome you didn't want."


That's pretty much how my wife would describe me and yet I always felt like my wants and needs were set aside for my W. Personally I feel a lot of misinterpretation and assumption goes into this kind of feeling.

Having said that your H might just be a selfish jerk.

Either way he isn't showing any signs of wanting to change that impression or his ways.


Both mid 30s, 2 young kids
BD 7sep14
XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1
D paperwork in progress
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Ggrass Offline OP
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I have seen no evidence that it's even shaky, fb selfies have come out.

I didn't see them, but ow couldn't help herself and messaged a nasty to one of my mates. She thought in the early days she would friend ow, to help and see what is going on.
I have never seen her in person. H lies about her existence to my face, but will tell others in the hope they will pass bones.

I did ask her not to. The only Intel we have about ow is via her mates from school.
Ow according to Intel likes married men and taking them from their marriage.
She has chased my friends married mate, she is well known as someone to stay away from.

So far her sop (standard operating procedure) is threaten anyone who questions her with legal action tick
Date married man tick
Have the marriage die tick
Sniff around other targets while in r tick
Often move in last about 2-3 years grin no tick here yet!
Marry if possible, secure settlement grin no tick here yet!
Move on to wealthier target when caught cheating with them grin no tick yet!

I will be interested to see what happens, when things all return to normal after all the Christmas breaks and the next round of liar stuff.


M 46 h54
Both married before
T 11y
Bd 2/14 I must see where ow leads!
Ms 18 hs 26
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,118
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Ggrass Offline OP
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Jim I know that, but when I asked for what I wanted and needed (without going away specifics that will identify) I came out and said I would prefer.

H would often use other family members as out ranking me, his s, his widowed mother (mine was a widow too) his nephew.

So at Christmas there was no compromise it had to include his m, but my family was optional. My birthday 3 years running h organised dinner at his mothers house same night. I was controlling and selfish for not conceding.

H last birthday he cracked the sads because I never have him his gift till the night, even tho he chose to work. I forgot I think to SMS durring the day. H picked a fight.

Yes from my side it sounds awful, but I know I made most of concessions willingly as I thought it was for the longer term good. looking back h actions really showed he wasn't genuine, lots of r talk no action.

There were good times too. Those good times are why you stay so long, the poker machine pay off. Just enough good to keep you hooked.

I have been really looking closely at the whole thing, I never want to repeat the whole train wreck, it nearly killed me.
I want to know I want to be different I want to know how to see the signs and how to make me the important person in the r. No more waiting till I am empty.


M 46 h54
Both married before
T 11y
Bd 2/14 I must see where ow leads!
Ms 18 hs 26
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,720
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Well the Ggrass I read here is nothing like the one you describe in the marriage as edz said way too sassy...

That introspection I think is the gift that gets talked about. So yes your last paragraph is all good schtuff.


Both mid 30s, 2 young kids
BD 7sep14
XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1
D paperwork in progress
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,008
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gan Offline
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Originally Posted By: jim0987
That introspection I think is the gift that gets talked about.


I think you cracked the code there, Jim.

And Gg - I agree with Jim and Edz. The person we know here is very different to the one you describe. Your experiences came as a total shock to read. I never would have guessed based on the way you are here that you've lived through all that. You're a strong woman, Gg. Good things will come to you.


H 37 Me 36
Together 15 years
Married 5 years
No kids
BD Apr 2014
H moved out 2 Jun 2014
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Ggrass Offline OP
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Although I don't know why I was even with him now when I see him, I still cannot negotiate anything with the man by way of settlement.

That I proved in mediation, h got the mediator on side by pretending to be confused, a bad communicator and joked around with her. She some how ended up on his side I think almost mothering him.

People seem to bend to him, I'm not sure how he does it. No one would believe that the man who sat in mediation and was ofended at my lone frustrated swear word, would call me names like w%##* etc. it's all about the projected fake persona. It was always behind closed doors or out of sight.


M 46 h54
Both married before
T 11y
Bd 2/14 I must see where ow leads!
Ms 18 hs 26
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,942
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edz Offline
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Hi Gg

I thought the other night that we only - through the reason we're here I suppose - post the negatives. I don't think I've posted any of the things I could about good times, in my case 15 years, yours 11 we could probably go on and wax nostalgic. Probably result in tears, icecream, chocolate, hankies and wine...not sure how any one else would react, those are just for me smile

My case, MIL poked her bony nose into our business, contributed to us being nigh on financially bankrupted and W and I may have failed to communicate, become distant and I distanced s as a result but I can say that there's nothing like you've been through and I'd hate to even contemplate that I could behave anything like that.

I know in my M MIL/FIL was always christmas if we went there or they came to us it was happening - my dad/stepmum? Errrr you go see him before or after I dont need to come. Importantly I never insisted we change that as it wasnt worth arguing over. Funnily enough, before BD, we had discussed going away this - last - year to get out of the perceived invitation I think I went down my usual rabbit hole of cost as to objecting at first, nice one there Edz, well done.

Indeed this year they invited themselves to be with w to "keep her company" before w was even back in the flat, she may not have wanted to come to me but might have been nice if she made her own mind up on that, she of course didnt argue.

The p0rn thing sounds slightly worrying, I wont pry but I'll listen if you want to talk.

It does sound like you were the one trying to be peacemaker by conceding ground, if you had anywhere like the same mindset as me it will be "dont sweat the small stuff, not worth it, look at the big picture". Until of course frustration means its all the big picture and then you either retreat away (hello!) or scream at each other out of sheer frustration.

If you had brought up issues or something you needed and it always got pushed back, ultimately, you do stop talking about it as it makes things worse - ironically thats supposedly the key WAW trigger, I always did do everything backwards. I know I stopped talking to w about intimacy (any not just ml) as it just seemed to make her go further away which of course left me further in the cold, in your case it sounds like anything you raised resulted in more of the same so you just stopped or it escalated?

The problem is when (as you said in Vs thread) the small stuff starts to get bigger, the envelope gets pushed.

Im Mr cant say nasty things (you may have noticed) but theres a difference between 'control freak' (in the nicest way thats my w as she herself has said on multiple occasions - I had no issues with that I'm the dooer, I can live with the planner or I can be the planner, happy either way) and dominating someone even if its in episodes (known people in that situation before, it never ended well)..

I obviously wasnt there and you can feel free to tell me if Im going beyond where I should be stopping Gg but it all sounds like immature behaviour from H to me, don't get your way? tantrum. Not sure how to reason maturely? resort to name calling or spread rumours and belittle. To ultimately control someone you are supposed to care for, I don't understand it. Although I do see it in MIL I suppose.

Constantly being rendered less than you are, who you deserve to be is not something anyone deserves, it really pushes my buttons when someone thinks its their right to do it. Its the core of my conflict with MIL, I also worry that w thought this is where my r with s was going to end up given her mother and my pushing him away emotionally before BD, I dont believe I could go there but Im not suprised it worried her. I apologised and told her that way back now.

I think you're right to never, ever want that situation back. I've learned late that trying to be the peacemaker or be naturally the one who wants to be giving and hopes to receive care as well doesn't, necessarily, mean being the one who keeps *everyone* happy, it plain doesnt work something has to be compromised and ideally that should be give by both parties, balancing your needs with your partners. I know I got between MIL and wife as MIL had her in tears on so many occasions and I just wanted to protect her, meantime w thought she was both between MIL and I being a referee and between s and I as we had a dysfunctional relationship to say the least from her perspective, all easy to see in hindsight.

Take care matey.


M:44, W:46, S:10
M 13 years, T 15
BD:23/7/2014
W/S Moved to MIL: 23/7/2014
My new place: 21/11/2014
W/S back to flat 22/11/2014
W coming closer, talking 4/2015
Piecing 5/2015
Moving in again 6/2015
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,942
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edz Offline
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Was tweaking my post (oo err) so crossed on your responses if the above sounds odd in comparison!


M:44, W:46, S:10
M 13 years, T 15
BD:23/7/2014
W/S Moved to MIL: 23/7/2014
My new place: 21/11/2014
W/S back to flat 22/11/2014
W coming closer, talking 4/2015
Piecing 5/2015
Moving in again 6/2015
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