Surving the rollercoster

[25yearsmlc]

Karma,

Hello, welcome to the best place to be for a lousy reason.

I read your whole thread (turns out it's not very long when seen in total).

Ahoy has a great point. Plus you have enough insight into this process AND your own personal history thus far, to know that dropping the rope really TRULY must happen now.

YOU WROTE:

"He said he didn't have a girlfriend but had been on a few dates in Dec with someone. She had no expectations and that's what he wants. To do his own thing. No expectations. I listened, validated."

I don't know what or how one validates a h dating OWS and Not expecting expectations...

He's saying in effect, that he wants to cake eat. At least he's honest about it.
While I've seen a lot around here these many years, I won't pretend to be a MC.

I'm just a DBer who had things go her way, after learning through many many mistakes on my end and finally HEARING what people were telling me, enough to implement it.

Can you allow him to cake eat, with the proviso that he's NOT likely to want to commit to you again, ever?

B/C that IS an option for some people. What if you decided that a weekend "bf" is something you could handle from your ex h?

You can decide that Karma. You really can. I know how it sounds, but hey, it is what you have now except you haven't joined his bed. So I ask, why not?

I'm serious and I'm not being snarky. I'm simply asking you to dig deep and decide if you can "casually" (or not so casually) date your ex h,

while knowing he'll date OWs and he may "fall" in love with one of them and then you'd probably lose him totally.

Because if you know that you cannot do this^^, IF you realize you only coped with the past 2 years b/c you assumed things were improving and moving towards a truly restored marriage,

then you must accept that you were mistaken. He's NOT interested in being married to you enough at this time, to choose you. And he hasn't been for the past 2 years.

That might sound like a death knell of the R to you. It's not.

So far, you simply don't know what he fears or risks or is willing to risk, b/c thus far, he's pretty much known you are around and as you say, "passively pursuing" him. Another way of saying that is you are "waiting" for him.

The only route you have NOT truly given your attention to, is moving on.

You can move on and not "give up". in 2006 I believed my m was over. I told my sisters there was a "10% chance of us making it" and I came to accept that. I also changed a lot and felt pretty happy about where my new life was heading.

I felt that h was losing a lot more than me in the end and that I'd be more than alright. I also dated and met 2 attractive men who were good company. Though in the end most of the dating confirmed for me that h was a well suited mate, it also reassured me that I would not be "all alone" if we divorced. That removed a lot of the sting and fear...I felt empowered by this.

But you have to move on as if you are an "aunt" to SD. And an old friend of his -- you can be warm, upbeat, busy GAL and happy

and NOT with him. I would date AND OR act as if I am, if I were you.

The only thing that's not happened in your situation to know if there's a way to get him to commit, is for you to let him know (thru actions NOT words)

that he's losing you to OMs --b/c he won't do what OM's do every day, the mature thing which is to CHOOSE.

I see your ex as having these options...

1) "I'm an adult and thus, I cannot always 'just date'. I must make a choice at some point in life. Karma's the best I'll ever hope to do. I choose to commit to her AND I'll keep my commitment."

[[ ** I don't think he'll make this^^ choice unless he feels the cost of Not making it, i.e. losing you for good AND to OM. For some reason, a lot of men get awakened/competitive when OMs are around. Many don't wake up til then. Maybe nothing is as attractive to them, as a woman they cannot have...]]

OR

2) "I will keep Karma as the 'aunt' to my sd and friend --but I like playing the field and or looking for younger OWs, so this is as much as she and I will have and I'll stay on my hunt"

AND OR

3) "I'll keep on eating cake b/c I'd bet Karma will take me back in the event I change my mind later. Why wouldn't she? She's not dating anyone. So there's no one treating her better. AND

We get along and she loves SD--which I am subconsciously using against her b/c I know she's still in love with me--AND I can keep dating around, having sex with whomever and maybe, just maybe, in my 'shopping around', I'll find someone better/younger/newer, who 'makes me feel' better about myself.

THEN - I'll commit...to OW, to the extent I'm capable of."

Karma, drop the rope big time. Do you want to know how or do you have that?

Also, please let me know what your 180s and GAL are.

You seem to intuitively get a lot of this DB stuff. However, in terms of concrete actions and following the "formula" (= just a guideline, and it evolves just like our r's do. So nothing need be rigidly followed unless you put it as your "DB approach")

I'm not sure what your 180s are. Maybe that's what you are asking?

Without knowing that, here are my suggestions.

Keep doing whatever personal work you are doing, like working on temper or organizational skills or whatever his complaints about you were, that you think were valid, keep doing.

This way, he'll know the marriage he left would be an improved marriage if he were to truly return. Because No WAS returns to a marriage they left,

unless....they believe that marriage can be better/different than before.

Your job is to show that it can be. Was your love life something that could use a bit more spark? What is it that you believe YOU must work on?

And open your mind to the possibility that while you could tweak a few things some more - he may be one of those guys who CANNOT or WILL NOT commit and keep his vows. Ever. (He did not marry the mother of his only child. That says something.)

So if he's not capable of fidelity, determine now how you feel about that.

And IF he is capable, we won't know that until he sees the true cost of Not being faithful, which is losing the best thing to ever happen to him; you.

Til you are ready to let him lose you, (or at least act like it),

you probably can't know if he can really be faithful to you long term. He sure isn't in a hurry to make anything happen with your r, either way. That's not adult behavior. He's not making a choice. Do you see that? His choice" is to Not make a choice. His "choice" is to stay in neutral and not get in gear. Even for his D, whom he probably feels he has served well, by inserting you into her life. Like HE did her a favor there...

Sorry Karma...that might hurt a lot to hear. Hey, at least you two don't hate each other and you have a lovely SD in your life.

Other suggestions:

Be a lot more mysterious, GAL big time, be a bit distant --- b/c you are always on your "way out to meet a new interesting person, go to a fascinating place and OR doing something FUN"....!!

Remember that "rule" that says YOU have had an awakening. YOU ARE DIFFERENT.

(Hey, that = "new and shiny"...might be sparkling enough for him to investigate a woman like...you).

Figure out for real, if YOU really want HIM as your partner. How much unreliability can you handle? And deceit? What about that?

I'm Not saying "go get your anger back"!! I'm saying "from this day forward, what can you handle from him, long term?"

You need to know that pretty darn soon, b/c you have already invested a lot of time, in a R that has stalled.

Please Keep posting and keep on keeping on.